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View Diary: Taking on the System and the Prop 8 protests (400 comments)

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  •  Oh I don't care about that. (10+ / 0-)

    Republicans are fine with me as long as they support equality for gay people, and Democrats can go to hell as far as I'm concerned if they don't support equality for gay people. I came around to that position after watching Barack Obama say bigoted things and get cut into commercials for the Yes on 8 side, while also refusing to lift a goddamn finger for us when we were so close and needed help so badly.

    No, I say fuck HRC because they're willing to accept mediocrity. Read Andrew Sullivan's post. Sorry, but being satisfied with ENDA by 2012 is ridiculous. We'll never get equality if we don't stand up and fucking demand it.

    Basically, the problem with HRC -- and I apologize about the racial connotations of this phrase, but there is something to it -- is that they are Uncle Toms.

    •  NO Fair on Obama ... (2+ / 0-)

      Obama was against Prop 8.  Sure, he was wishy-washy on marriage equality, but I wasn't going to sacrifice the presidency for just gay marriage.  Obama gave us everything we needed -- denounce Prop 8, oppose Federal amendment, and supported repealing DOMA.

      It was the "No on 8" campaign's stupidity that they didn't effectively use Obama, and allowed the other side to trick voters into believing he was on the "Yes" side.

      I'm all with you on HRC, but don't you dare attack Obama on this issue.

      •  ditto paul (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DaleA

        that said, obama is now in a political pickle, especially given how the yes on 8 side used his image deceitfully.

      •  Obama's no hero on this. (5+ / 0-)

        denounce Prop 8

        So tepidly as to be counterproductive, and while claiming that in general "marriage is between a man and a woman."

        oppose Federal amendment

        Not exactly a profile of courage.

        and supported repealing DOMA

        The past tense really says it all. Wake me up when he does something about it.

        •  Amen. (4+ / 0-)

          Obama's been trying to have this both ways.  I think he probably has no problem with gay marriage, but he's too chicken to come out and say it.  He's far too interested in getting the votes of religious Americans, so he's not willing to do anything to offend them.  He knows gay people have noplace else to go, so he doesn't need to help us.

          It's just like his FISA vote.  Sure, it pissed civil libertarians off, but he knew he'd get their votes anyway.  In the response he posted to liberal complaints about his vote, he said that some might view it as a "dealbreaker."  Sure, if we wanted to vote for someone even worse on civil liberties.

          The moral of the story is not to get too enamored of any politician.  They're far more likely to act out of expediency than conviction.

          •  Hell, he's attended (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Killer of Sacred Cows

            gay weddings in his own church.

            However...well...I ain't trying to be excessively gradualist, but he's always tried to paint it as a "states rights" thing.  Plus, he and Biden have both claimed to support SOME form of Federal Recognition.

            The CA Supreme Court already laid out the map, didn't they?  If Obama gets three appointments, and puts in the right Judges, and ALSO creates a Federal :civil union: couldn't the SCOTUS follow the CA Supreme Court reasoning once the groundwork is laid?

            •  Yeah, that would be awesome. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jkusters, Killer of Sacred Cows

              If Obama gets three appointments, and puts in the right Judges, and ALSO creates a Federal :civil union:

              Yes, and if a horde of invisible unicorns use their mind control rays to persuade the Religious Right...

              Sorry to be facetious. If Obama does the things you list, I will be a 100% convert. But frankly at this point I doubt he is even going to follow through on his promise to repeal DOMA, let alone go further and create federal civil unions. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see.

              •  Kennedy flat-out refused to talk (0+ / 0-)

                about anti-miscegenation laws in 1960.

                Between him and LBJ, the right appointments were made.  Loving was decided.

                Don't missunderstand me.  Pressure has to be maintained.  I'm certainly not a "put your trust in the Democrats" guy.

              •  Me either (0+ / 0-)

                I don't think Obama will repeal DOMA.  We'll be lucky if we get some version of ENDA out of this Congress.  What we'll hear is that the administration has to "focus on the big issues" or "key priorities."  Since equality for gay people does not appear to fit into those categories, we'll be on the back burner, I suspect.  

                Don't get me wrong, I'm as happy as anyone to have an intelligent, thinking Democrat back in the White House.  But I'd much prefer someone who talked "straight" (pardon the unwanted pun) on these issues.  And right now, I don't see that from Obama.  He hung around with a homophobic gospel singer during the primary, so he's got friends that I wouldn't consider reassuring.

          •  Exactly (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Killer of Sacred Cows, Pender

            I think Obama might be a pretty good president.  I voted for him.  But I stopped donating to him after the FISA debacle, and the issue of marriage equality has similar connotations in my mind.  It's different in that the Constitution is pretty clear that the FISA crap is not allowed, while the issue of gay marriage is not as clear constitutionally.  On the other hand, we're talking about a fundamental right here (or so said SCOTUS in the Loving case), and that's where it's similar.

            Even if I loved Obama, I'd agree with your statement about politicians.  Not just because they are likely to act out of expediency, but because our system doesn't work if we trust our politicians.  I wouldn't care if Bernie Sanders (my favorite Senator) was President, I'd hope we'd have some checks and balances.

            Want a progressive global warming novel, not a right wing rant? Go to www.edwardgtalbot.com for a free audio thriller.

            by eparrot on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 07:50:38 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

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