Skip to main content

View Diary: Morning Reaction: Cheney Ignoring a Law? I'm Shocked! (211 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  I heard a Warren/Obama tidbit..... (12+ / 0-)

    that their conversations have been on-going for years, and during the proof-reading phase of "Audacity of Hope", Warren was a/the adviser to Obama on the chapter about Religion.

    So, theres the first Saddleback presentation, the "debate" at Saddleback, this proof-reading of his book, and the phone-calls between the two for years, maybe a substitution OR "moving on" from the Rev. Wright interpretations.

    More than meets the eye, anyway.

    Heard it on NPR Thurs. ATConsidered.....

    Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

    by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 01:33:42 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  sickening. we've been punked. nt (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      EJP in Maine, NonnyO, kktlaw

      It would be the first principle of sane kindness that all forms of sacrifice would be avoided, if at all possible."--Adam Phillips

      by andrewj54 on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:08:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Warren will be more prone to changing positions/ (27+ / 0-)

        attitudes/messaging, not Obama.

        Spotlight is on Warren, when you think about it.

        Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

        by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:14:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Warren: (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          EJP in Maine, watershed, dakini03

          "Oh, how SILLY of me to have compared gays to PEDOPHILES and INCEST PERPETRATORS, and abortion to GENOCIDE.  What was I THINKING?"

          It would be the first principle of sane kindness that all forms of sacrifice would be avoided, if at all possible."--Adam Phillips

          by andrewj54 on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:26:15 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's what I would like to hear (7+ / 0-)

            but I'm guessing it won't be anytime soon.  

            Do you think there is any possibility he listen's to Obama's viewpoint?  

            Don't believe everything you think.

            by EJP in Maine on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:50:07 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Obama's viewpoint about what? (10+ / 0-)

              People don't change their views on homosexuality because someone has a talk with them.

              Homophobia is a phobia, remember.  A deep-seated irrational fear.

              They change through exposure: their kid comes out to them, or the nieghbor's kid, they go see Brokeback Mountain, etc.

              I am concerned that Obama wants to cultivate a relationship with him, as it will then mean he will have to weigh offending him and his kind if he did want to do something progressive.  

              I am not sanguine about this.

              It would be the first principle of sane kindness that all forms of sacrifice would be avoided, if at all possible."--Adam Phillips

              by andrewj54 on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:55:52 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Damn right he's cultivating, on the poor, global (10+ / 0-)

                warming and HIV research for three.

                Decreasing the # of abortions, by throwing out that abstinence financing for instance, will be a 2012 "proof is in the charts" type situation.

                Democrats have to cleave the fundies/evangels, it is pragmatic strategy.

                Warren's "reverse titheing", 90% of his book profits plowed into programs will dull the luster on those jet-plane preachers, like Richard Roberts/Graham's son, and Ceflo Dollar.

                Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

                by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:08:57 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  if it comes at the cost (4+ / 1-)
                  Recommended by:
                  luvmovies2000, EJP in Maine, NonnyO, NCrissieB
                  Hidden by:
                  The Raven

                  that he cannot promote civil rights for me and the rest of the gays because he HASTA win the next election and can't afford to alienate his new BFF's, he is throwing me under the bus.

                  Then fuck him.

                  It would be the first principle of sane kindness that all forms of sacrifice would be avoided, if at all possible."--Adam Phillips

                  by andrewj54 on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:23:34 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  the audio NPR report was a little more cut (6+ / 0-)

                    and dried, I'm not one to believe polls, esp. that diseccting that comes after voting.

                    But the reporter, besides giving that "proofreading" background on the Obama/Warren relationship, which is the first time I heard it, gave out numbers like how the McCain INCREASED his support over Bush in that constituency, to 27%.

                    This probably can be attributed to the loooooong Dem primary, where Clinton was more favored in that regard, and 27% took it personally.

                    The second insinuation of that report was "this is a states issue" currently, and it will take time to make civil right changes etched on the Federal level, especially by turnover in the Supreme Court.

                    There is no use pushing some things with Roberts/Scalia holding so much sway, be easier when another Thurgood Marshall/William O. Douglas type can be inserted into the mix.

                    Eight years would guarantee more liberal civil rights, and the election nowadays is NEVER over, so pragmatism is the word of the day.

                    Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

                    by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:35:19 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  We LGBTs had no seats on Obama's bus (15+ / 0-)

                    Obama is not "betraying" LGBTs by inviting Rick Warren to give the invocation at his inaugural.  Barack Obama is not, never was, and never pretended to be a "pro-LGBT" candidate.  The only "pro-LGBT" candidate in 2008 was Dennis Kucinich, and he never rose above "also ran" status.

                    Obama said from the start that he doesn't support LGBT marriage.  He never promised to end "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (though I still expect him to).  He did not talk about anti-LGBT hate crimes - more LGBTs have been murdered just for being LGBT, and just since 1970, than were blacks lynched in the whole of the 20th century - nor did he make a single speech against California Proposition 8, Florida Amendment II, or the two other Kick The Local Queer referenda on state ballots this past year.

                    The passage of those Kick The Local Queer referenda has pushed LGBT issues higher on the agenda here at DKos (and I'm glad of that), but their passage hasn't pushed LGBT issues higher on Barack Obama's agenda.  He didn't campaign on those issues, and I don't think and never thought we LGBTs are all that important to him.  He promised us nothing, so he's not betraying any promises by giving us nothing.

                    I supported (and still support) Barack Obama despite his positions on LGBT issues, not because of them.  If you thought he would stand up for LGBT issues, I'm sorry, but you just weren't listening very closely.

                    •  No, I think you're mistaken (16+ / 0-)

                      Obama has always said he was against gay marriage, but he has been a strong supporter of hate crime legislation, and supported legislation in Illinois that banned discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. He wants to repeal DODA and even though he is against gay marriage, he did not support the DOMA in 1996 and voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment.

                      •  Massachusetts is the model, and Obama isn't (10+ / 0-)

                        going to reverse the will of the people of the state.

                        Likewise, Prop. 8 was a California issue, he can't send the national guard in to protect anything, it is in the hands of the California gov't, still on going.

                        California has to get the ducks in a row, all Obama can do is add advocates to his cabinet and impose equal treatment/rights in any federal programs.

                        We face Winter in a depression, shelter, food and clothing for ALL is the priority.

                        I agree that Don't Ask Don't Tell will end in a quiet way, and not in 2009, especially while the economy is driving enlistments now.  

                        That Navy Department appointment may give a clue (or not).

                        Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

                        by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 05:27:07 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  he's also for civil unions (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        skrekk, The Raven, bamabikeguy

                        that exactly mirror the rights and privileges of marriage.

                        Now we can get into the "separate but equal" isn't equal argument (and I think in NJ and CT, that's exactly what they've done, and found civil unions wanting, and said you have to go with marriage).  But if the rights and privileges are identical, is separate-but-equal NOT equal?

                        Words mean a lot, I know.  They symbolize what our culture thinks of institutions of all kinds.  But I cannot equate this position with anything the right-wing Christians posit.  It's light years beyond it.

                        Article 6: "...no religious test shall *ever* be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the U.S."

                        by billlaurelMD on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 08:24:04 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  It's not a matter of rights. (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      EJP in Maine, The Raven, bamabikeguy

                      It's a matter of some people wanting to segregate another group of people by denying them the usual and customary services of local and state government.
                      LGBT people aren't their only target. They've been looking to segregate Hispanics and so-called "illegals," as well.
                      Why?  Most likely because segregation has proved a convenient strategy for controlling the "in" group.  Not only is demonizing an "out" group easy but the threat of "contamination" or "excommunication" serves as a powerful, no-cost force for keeping the "in" group under control.

                      What's Warren doing?  He's "protecting" his flock from the wickedness "out there."  How is this different from Bush/Cheney protecting the American people from terrorists?  It isn't.
                      Would we be discussing this pattern much if the spotlight hadn't been thrown on Warren?

                      How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

                      by hannah on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 05:23:29 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  You're already under the bus. (8+ / 0-)

                    Rick Warren's one of many bus drivers.
                    Ultimately, we need to persuade bus drivers to stop driving over you.

                    We don't really have the ability to fire all the problem bus drivers and many of the bus companies and their customers love the way they drive or are resistant to acknowledging to what they do wrong and avoid blame, get defensive, and don't take responsibility -- making it hard for them to change.

                    It's probably necessary for some of us to curse out the bus drivers and scream bloody murder.  But it's probably helpful at the same time to have quieter voices that "they" trust saying, "c'mon, they're angry for a reason, we can do better, it won't hurt you."

                  •  Ditching DADT (4+ / 0-)

                    and pressuring Congress to get ENDA on his desk for his signature would go a long way toward assuaging a lot of fears.

                    And I'll watch and see if Obama appoints justices at all levels who understand that it's the Constitution, not the Bible, that's the Supreme Law of the United States.

                    "Once you choose hope, anything's possible." ~Christopher Reeve

                    by Cali Scribe on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 05:55:58 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  You have to start from somewhere (8+ / 0-)

                Most whites didn't have problems with racism until some discovered that it was wrong. You act like people do not change. Well they do.

                •  Warren has "preached to the choir" (9+ / 0-)

                  any sudden reversal would diminish his audience, potential and collection plate.

                  However, once the conversation begins, then moderation might happen, first on getting the hot button abortion issue out of the voting booth.

                  That right to choose issue looks to have precedence, according to the early reports.  If that was the issue that cut into the catholic bloc, then acceptance will get the "pro-death", "infanticide" meme out of the conversation next time around, make the Brownbecks/Palins/Hucklebees more "out of touch"...

                  Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

                  by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 04:01:19 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Many whites didn't have a problem with (3+ / 0-)

                  racism until they realized that you can't segregate one group without segregating everyone else and that segregation didn't provide a benefit to either side.

                  Nevertheless, segregation remains an attractive strategy to people who are into exercising power over other people.  You know, "divide and conquer."
                  Some people even go so far as to segregate themselves in "gated communities."  So, they live in fear.  Check out Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" to see his take on it.

                  When religious leaders preach about hell-fire they do a lot less damage because being afraid of what happens after you're dead is a lot less debilitating that being afraid of what's down the road or around the bend.

                  How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

                  by hannah on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 05:30:51 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  It really doesn't make any difference what (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              tomjones, willie horton, NCrissieB

              Warren's viewpoint is.  He's not charged with executing the laws of the land.

              From where I sit, it's really rather simple.  Our political subdivisions are charged with providing services equitably.  If the domestic contracts of some people are recorded as a matter of public interest and usefulness, then those contracts should be recorded for all people who want them to be recorded.  (Let us recall that domestic arrangements used not to be recorded but were still recognized in the common law.  Also, even today a commercial contract need not be written down or recorded to receive legal consideration in a court of law.  So, the whole kerfuffle is really about record-keeping).

              Dick Cheney knows how important records are.  That's why he wants to be able to destroy those related to his official position.

              How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

              by hannah on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 05:09:10 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Excellent point (0+ / 0-)

                Marriage is a civil contract joining two individuals into a family. The parties in a wedding become spouses, with legal rights and duties regarding each other. It is defined, governed, and administrated by civil law. In the USA, we permit these contracts to be executed by churches, ship's captains, mayors, and others; however, the "power vested in them" by the government does not change the civil nature of the contract.

                I believe that any two persons have the right to join themselves into a family and become spouses, no matter what their gender or sexual preference. If any church does not agree, they have the right not to perform such weddings in their church... but not to prevent this civil contract from being executed in another church or by the government.

                (I got married in Russia, where the civil nature of marriage is more obvious: all legal weddings are performed in a government office called ZAGS. Some couples choose to also have a church wedding, but it is legally meaningless: you ain't married without a ceremony at ZAGS).

                I'm not a Democrat, I'm a liberal. Democrats go to meetings.

                by willie horton on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 01:22:34 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  More likely: "There are important differences." (7+ / 0-)

            Or ... "It's possible I was wrong; out of respect for YOU, I will rethink that."

            We've gone through similar culture-wide conversions before, on racism and sexism and there's been movement on bigotry against GLB people (not sure about T).  

            Part of how it happens involves unpleasant things like anger, outrage and rocking boats and tearing down walls.

            Part of how it happens involves vulnerability, release, nurturance, and building of bridges and shared spaces.

        •  No, neither he nor any of his wingnut followers (7+ / 0-)

          will ever budge on any positions, although they might become more accepting of Obama as a person via his invitation to Warren. I believe the right wing sees this as Obama's concession to THEM, that Obama is getting some "sense", and will see their righteous ways. Not that it will happen, but that is the tone I hear around here, in Rick Warren's back yard.

        •  exactly....and looking at big picture... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skrekk, bamabikeguy

          Warren is now forced into appearing more gay friendly.  He is getting mad that people think he hates gay people.  You think Obama didn't know this would happen?  Watch Warren do a meet-n-greet with "the gays" in the near future to prove he isn't a bigot.  Two things will happen.

          1.  The minority of fundies that have functioning neurons will realize the Warren touched a gay dude and didn't get struck by lightening, Gawd or AIDs.  Will highlight the fact that the queer are here...everywhere...and intend to STAY.
          1.  Will illuminate and force the rapture homophobes out in the open in outrage, further identifying and marginalizing them.

          Obama is using Warren in the most masterful way.  I know most of you disagree but I think Warren...doing a fucking forgettable goddamn invocation with no policy power....is being forced to bring the topic of homosexuality into the open.  You thought you homophobes could hide?  Oh no...  What better way to begin to destroy the homophobe sanctuary that is the church than to use the head Fundie Fatass?

          Give a bullshit master a bullshit job.  USE his strength and make it OURS.  Destroy this homophobic bastard from the inside.

          "all your base are belong to us"

          ~Puts your hands up for homemade chili~

          by CWalter on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 10:51:29 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, right.... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sleepwalkr, NCrissieB

        I guess you think they have been talking about how to take my rights away as a lesbian all these years. I assume they have been talking about how to forge alliances between liberals and religious conservatives around issues like poverty and global warming.

    •  Is that anything like "some people say..."? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NCrissieB

      Just asking.....

      Hey, President-Elect Obama - don't tell Bush too many of your plans lest he preemptively torpedoes them!

      by PatsBard on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:18:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Radio was on while I was doing a dog search (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        EJP in Maine, JaxDem, NCrissieB

        Thurs evening, would have been in the second hour.

        NPR archives would find the exact words, but I didn't know about the proof-reading/advising on the book until I heard that report.

        Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

        by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:21:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Pup still hasn't returned??? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          EJP in Maine, NCrissieB, bamabikeguy

          I thought you were sure he'd be back last Sunday.  Any sightings lately?  What about the goat of lesser distinction, are they together still?

          As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. -John F. Kennedy

          by JaxDem on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:09:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Bennie Causey calls at 1 a.m. Fri. Morning (10+ / 0-)

            I ride over there, no flashlight, start whistling, a white dog (pup is missing for a month now) comes up in a red collar.

            Benny:"He sure likes you"...but I'm looking at that red collar/no tag ????  (rain increases, me getting wet, Bennie in his pajamas, dry on the porch and wanting to yadda yadda yadda)

            What do I do?  Load the stinkin' to high heaven wet dog in the car, bring it home, THEN figure out its not only a female, it isn't even a stray- just a "roamer"....well fed and picky about the food to boot.

            So it really belongs to somebody in that mile stretch behind Bennies, and I'm going to rectify that this morning.

            My dog was last seen at the Cryer's, about 3 miles yonder, by the river, STILL WITH THE RED EAR TAGGED GOAT...Pup is getting famous according to my neighbor, they are talking about the Pup's Walkabout.

            Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

            by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:18:59 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh, this story gets funnier (4+ / 0-)

              by the day.  Getting the wrong dog and now having to find the owner...priceless.  Pup obviously isn't in need of a good meal or he would've been home by now.  Btw, I love the "teaser" you put in your sig line.

              As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. -John F. Kennedy

              by JaxDem on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:26:25 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Gr. Pyrenees are gentle with kids, flocks, herds (8+ / 0-)

                anything they are raised with, they protect, but that doesn't mean "passive", they like the meat to be really really dead, not fresh.

                Paws like shovels, they can uncover a dead cow, they steal from coyotes, I've seen Sampson dive under a wood pile to catch a rabbit, seen him drag a snapping turtle out of a creek.

                Lazy deer hunters don't track wounded prey, so Pup is probably eating like a wolf out there. Bobby Cryer told the guy who he told of the sighting that Pup looks fat and happy.  

                And he won't let anybody close to that goat, chased it away when Bobby approached. then followed the goat toward the river.

                Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

                by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:49:43 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Oh my, (9+ / 0-)

                  What a tale of woe!  I know first hand what great dogs GPs are, my brother rented a house on a Christmas tree farm that came complete with sheep to keep the grass down between the trees and the Great Pyrenees that watched over them.  He took the sheep in at night and watched them all day.  The only thing the humans had to do was let the sheep out in the morning and close the gate at night. After the sheep where in for the night the dog would have his only moment of rest.  He would come in the house for his food and a romp with the babies, then back out for the night shift.  He kept the mountain lions and coyote away.  We would here him howling at them up on the ridge.  Most impressive dog.

                  "Whoever wrote this alternative "plan" shouldn't merely be fired -- they should be fired into the sun." Hunter

                  by tobendaro on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 06:40:20 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  This is so weird (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sleepwalkr, bamabikeguy

                  On Thanksgiving my aunt (who lived out from town about 5 miles, near the lake) told me she had a new dog -- a giant white dog that showed up one day with a goat. The two are staying in her barn.

                  The dog is huge and kills other animals (including a neighbor calf), but is fiercely protective of the goat. At first she was afraid because she has two horses and thought the dog might hurt them. But he seems to like them OK. My aunt started feeding the dog and goat, of course, and is now cooking meals for them.

                  What are the odds that could happen in two places at nearly the same time? Now I'm beginning to wonder if GPs have some affinity for goats.

                  "There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest." -- Elie Wiesel

                  by carolita on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 10:42:35 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  They're really riled by canine smells,pretty much (0+ / 0-)

                    ignore grazers...they are hyper-territorial.

                    And killing the calf would be "not normal behavior", what they WOULD do is similar to a lion, scare other animals away from a carcass, get the spoils without doing the deed.  

                    Wild dog packs roam everywhere, but a Gr. Pyrenees can whup a pit bull or a rottwieller, mine have done it many times.  So, they would/could chase a small pack away from a dead calf pretty quick.

                    When you give Sampson a T-bone, he pulverizes it, liquifies it almost.

                    University of Idaho studied all the breeds, GP's  are they only one that won't bite humans by nature, unless they are trained for aggression.

                    In Israel, where they protect cattle from lions, they usually pen them up with one heifer calf for a couple of months, so they aren't really looking after the whole herd, just that one single individual.  Some do the same with lambs and kids, let the dog adopt one.  

                    (I don't, three dogs roam the property, my donkey and llama stay with the flock).

                    But your aunt's dog has adopted that goat as his own property, it just so happens the goat adopted her barn.

                    Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

                    by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 12:39:15 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  Link: (4+ / 0-)

        For last Thursday.

        http://www.npr.org/...

        I avoid audios/videos, and can't find the transcripts of the three Warren stories that day.

        I know it was a man's voice, so that eliminates the Hagerty 4 min. report.

        Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

        by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:38:59 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  He's almost as bad (10+ / 0-)

      on Jews and Muslims, whom he says will go to hell. From the New Republic, via Americablog

      When it came time for questions, a woman stood up, proclaimed her Judaism, and asked Warren if she was going to burn in hell. He paused before responding--and then answered her question the only way it could be answered. Yes, he said to audible gasps.

      Don't believe everything you think.

      by EJP in Maine on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:30:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  So they are friends. And have been for a while? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tomjones

      So?

    •  The next time Obama haters bring up Rev Wright... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bamabikeguy

      we Obama supporters can say that he actually prefers Rev Warren.

      Could that be what this is all about? Getting passed Rev Wright?

      The secret to a happy marriage: Say NO to drugs and YES to chores.

      by Jimdotz on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 06:43:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think so, there was a editorial by an black (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        The Raven, Jimdotz

        pundit the other day who was cautioning patience, he's the "first black President, not black President first", and he insinuated that Warren might actually be being used, to move the religious kitchen heat westward, to Promised Land California, and away from both Wright AND those Virginia/South Carolina bastions of televangelism.

        Tues. a.m. on Motorized Bikes Diaries What does "one one, one two, one three" stand for?

        by bamabikeguy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 06:55:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  check out the Juan Cole blog (6+ / 0-)

      http://www.juancole.com/...

      While he's critical of Warren too, I think this is not nearly as black-and-white as it seems.  I still maintain that keeping open a dialog with evangelicals, and right wing ones at that, is more likely to get results to our liking than not talking to them (that alternative sounds an awful lot like Bush, doesn't it?).  Whether having Warren do the convocation is appropriate as part of keep dialog open, is a good question to ask.

      Article 6: "...no religious test shall *ever* be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the U.S."

      by billlaurelMD on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 08:02:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site