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View Diary: Do you think UAW workers make $70 an hour? UPDATED (211 comments)

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  •  Your Dad sounds like a man way ahead of his time. (5+ / 0-)
    •  the old union day stories (6+ / 0-)

      He has some great "back in the day" stories when there was a strong influence of European socialism on US union philosophy (not really the case anymore).  He talks of small union publications calling for universal health benefits (not called that at the time, but I don't remember what term they used for it back then).  That was something different than the portable pension and healthcare systems he was pushing for in the 70s.

      It is amazing that within one generation, most Americans have forgotten about real pensions (defined benefits at retirement) versus self-funded "retirement accounts" like IRAs or 401(k)s. It really is a shame because some pensioners could have a reasonable retirement and a widow could draw those benefits as well.  With Social Security as a supplement, the elderly could live with dignity in the Midwest.  I am not so sure about that any more.

      The only thing scarier than a McCain presidency is a Palin presidency.

      by Mote Dai on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:30:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Everyone drank the Kool Aid, (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mote Dai, Poom, phrogge prince, slowheels2

        They were convinced by their financial planners that they were going to get rich off the stock market and the value of the homes.  Meanwhile, the investment banks and hedge funds have siphoned their retirements funds into their off shore tax free bank accounts.

        •  Retirement accounts (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          phrogge prince

          I never understood retirement accounts, even though I participate at work.  It is basically a money making scheme for Wall Street.  They get a steady stream of funds to push bad investments and they get the fees.  These investment firms are like bookies as they make their cut no matter what the outcome.  If the market tanks and everyone sells, well, they still make a fee on those transactions.  Oh, and let's not forget the mountains of "management fees" they get scoop off the top.  My work IRA "financial planner" recommended mutual funds with an almost 6% front load.  I told her, "You have to be shitting me, after inflation is accounted for (3%) and the annual management fees (0.7%), the fund would have to clear ten percent before I made anything."  No thank you.

          Seriously though, most people simply will not be able to save the amount of money required to live 20 plus years using retirement accounts.  Most midwesterners would be lucky to have 100 grand in one of those accounts when he/she retires.  Definitely not enough to generate income to live on, so they have to use the principle...which only shrinks the entire investment overall.  It is a shell game we have been lead to believe...that these accounts will somehow provide for us.  I just don't see it.  Maybe I am biased by my own financial losses over the past six months.

          The only thing scarier than a McCain presidency is a Palin presidency.

          by Mote Dai on Tue Nov 18, 2008 at 11:49:00 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The government will have to create a special bond (0+ / 0-)

            for people to buy that will generate enough income to supplement retirement.  People being forced to fund the stock market which is what most of these accounts are designed to do, is a losing proposition.  Just try to get a clear picture of where your money is being invested by the large fund managers and it will make your head hurt.  

        •  The Koolaid was served by Ronald Reagan (0+ / 0-)

          and an entire generation of Americans drank it.

          It's now embedded into the culture, what with the MSM touting Reagan as a "Great President" -- do you remember that Royal Funeral they had for that lout?

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