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View Diary: Do you think UAW workers make $70 an hour? UPDATED (211 comments)

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  •  And? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cnmbfa, Terra Mystica, thethinveil

    Yes, as documented in comments above, the Big 3 have other labor costs (decades retired workers) that the "new to the US car manufacturing scene" do not have.  Just wait, those numbers will each parity in a few years.  Also, now that the VEBA is going, Detroit's numbers will drop dramatically as the legacy pension portion of the total cost will be removed.  

    Also, those numbers do not remove the amount that employees paid in for the pension and healthcare benefits, so that amount is in effect added in twice in the total.

    The only thing scarier than a McCain presidency is a Palin presidency.

    by Mote Dai on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 12:41:24 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Um, hourly wages are higher in (0+ / 0-)

      UAW Plants, compared to Toyota plants. Although pensions are a majority of the trouble, the wage difference is still there. A big reason why the UAW agreement in 2007 sputtered is because management complained about the wage gap

      Toyota and Honda are well established. Gm stills sells as many cars as Toyota , but is in way more trouble because of their cost inputs. It's time to enter the Brave New World of globalization.

      Liberal? Yeah, we're around here and we're proud. But it's not a liberal blog.

      by fireonice on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 12:44:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  What? (0+ / 0-)

        Toyota and Honda receive enormous local tax breaks to build factories in the United States, so comparing "cost inputs" at just the labor level is not a fair comparison.  

        Toyota and Honda are not "well-established" in any meaningful way in the US working population compared to the Big 3.  Give me a break...there is no comparison in the number and age of the work force.

        Bottom line: why are you so against people receiving a living wage?

        The only thing scarier than a McCain presidency is a Palin presidency.

        by Mote Dai on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 12:53:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  , stop tugging at emotions, look at facts (0+ / 0-)

          GM gets plenty of tax breaks from Levin and Conyers, be sure.  Wage gap is THERE. And who says Toyota and GM have to stay in the US if workers wan't a higher wage, they can move off shore. Have you heard of free trade, it's the New In thing.

          Bottom Line: I am not against a living wage, but if they want to pay above average ways and go under and then have the nerve to ask for a bailout , tough noogies. Take a pay cut.

          Liberal? Yeah, we're around here and we're proud. But it's not a liberal blog.

          by fireonice on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 01:01:19 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What I recommend (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mote Dai, Terra Mystica

            to bring down the cost of health care is to import tens of thousands of doctors from India, England, Australia, you name it.  

            That will allow them to compete with Overpaid American doctors.  The costs of private medical care is too high.  We need the free market to really bring those costs down.

            And if you, as a specialist, do not like making $10 an hour as a result, tough noogies.  Join a union.

          •  Heart strings? (0+ / 0-)

            I am not tugging at any heart strings?  "Free trade" is a joke.  Where is the bottom in your system?  $10/hr? $5/hr?  Hell, people work in squalid conditions overseas for pennies on the hour.  Let's join up for that!  Let's make it a race for the bottom.  And looking at all your other responses combined on this diary, it is quite clear that you hold a pay grudge against people in unions.  

            The only thing scarier than a McCain presidency is a Palin presidency.

            by Mote Dai on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 06:00:59 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Um, did you read the link and pullquote I (0+ / 0-)

        gave upthread?  While hourly wages are lower in Toyota plants in the US, cash compensation to hourly workers is higher.  Again you seem to misrepresent the comprehensive state of things by selecting bits here and there.

        "You may already be a wiener!" Anonymous

        by Terra Mystica on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 01:47:32 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  gawd these auto workers (0+ / 0-)

          Do the Toyota employees get that fat check from from their stock since the market is doing so well?

          Working with Robots with little or no human communication for a full day seems so worth that stock option!

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