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View Diary: More on Bush Burrowing (94 comments)

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  •  I wonder what can be done (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Churchill, glassbeadgame, Puddytat

    I think Congress might have to pass a statute on this issue, and even then, there might be questions as to validity.

    John McCain, 100 years in Iraq "fine with me"

    by taylormattd on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 05:42:22 PM PST

    •  If Obama Gets Serious About Weeding These (0+ / 0-)

      people out, he's going to run hard into the senate math that 59=0.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 05:43:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Impeachment sounds good right now (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Skid, Compound F, Puddytat

      /lol

      "We were warriors then, and our tribe was strong like a river" - Hunter S Thompson

      by GonzoLegend on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 05:43:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think tagging the career hires (7+ / 0-)

      via the transition teams that are dusting out the corners, then monitoring and reassigning those hires to high work, low value areas, mail room bosses, transcription services.. etc.

      "Biden's tears did more for the equality Of the sexes than Palin's presence" - Leah Renna

      by edgeways on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 05:50:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  why not eliminate positions as a budget cutting (5+ / 0-)

        re-organization of each department.   If it is a new position, could argue that it isn't needed.

      •  Why couldn't (3+ / 0-)

        BO just fire them?  Just reverse the conversions to civil servants back to political appointees.  Why should he [we, congress] play by the 'rules' as defined by the repubs?

        Bush's presidency is now inextricably yoked to the policies of aggression and subjugation. Mike Whitney

        by dfarrah on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 06:00:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly. Anyone moved from a political position (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dfarrah, Bob Love, esquimaux, Joe Neri

          to a career position should be considered to be, absent contradictory evidence, a political appointee and replaced as a political appointee would be replaced.

        •  Perhaps becasue it may be more than just 'rules' (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Churchill

          as defined by the repubs, it may well be that you can not fire someone without direct due cause, and saying it was because someone you don't like hired them is not sufficient reason.

          Don't get me wrong, if they can legally fire these people they should definitely do so. But, they also need to proceed according to law. I have had enough of administrations that redefine what the laws are just to suit their desires. I want an administration that administers by rule of law. Even if sometimes I dislike the results.

          Now, I also believe firmly that unjust rules and laws need to be challenged, perhaps sometimes violently... but if there are ways around such conflicts it is best to go that route first.

          So, use them if they have to, but use them in a way that produces some value, but minimized their actual importance. Flag their personnel records to indicate they where hired under such and such circumstances so there is no mistaking where they came from and their relative merits. Have them change light bulbs, clean the bathrooms, go count wolf populations in mosquito infested areas...

          "Biden's tears did more for the equality Of the sexes than Palin's presence" - Leah Renna

          by edgeways on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 06:23:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Using them in a way that produces some value (0+ / 0-)

            So, use them if they have to, but use them in a way that produces some value, but minimized their actual importance. Flag their personnel records to indicate they where hired under such and such circumstances so there is no mistaking where they came from and their relative merits. Have them change light bulbs, clean the bathrooms, go count wolf populations in mosquito infested areas...

            How about like in the olden days, just have them sweep the streets.

            This is your world These are your people You can live for yourself today Or help build tomorrow for everyone -8.75, -8.00

            by DisNoir36 on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 06:41:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  AGREE civil service protection will stop firing (0+ / 0-)

            sad, but true!!

            80 percent of success is just showing up - Woody Allen.

            by Churchill on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 06:44:17 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  The folks who see federal employment as a right (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          De Re Rustica, Joe Neri

          beat you to the punch on this one.

          Whenever you want to remove ("fire") a civil servant, you run headlong into federal employment law.  Presuming the employee isn't in a probationary status (which may or may not be the case here), you can only remove a civil servant for misconduct or poor performance.  Civil servants have an astounding package of legal rights protecting their positions.  They get a right to appeal to the Merit Systems Protection Board (the acronym MSPB has often been derided as "must send person back," so getting the removal past the Board is no sure-fire thing) and have a hearing before an administrative judge.  If the employee loses there, they can take their case to the MSPB leadership.  If they lose there, they have the right to appeal their case in federal court.  Yes, that's right, it really can be a "federal case" to terminate a civil servant.

          That being said, there are options:

          1.  Change up the person's job description so that they have little/no impact on the world (how about: review all 1960 regulations for typos?).  The problem is that you're wasting a high-level position, but it is a good way to minimize the damage they can do.
          1.  Have a reduction in force.  Almost no appeal rights here, but you lose the position.
          1.  Impose very strict deadlines and quality expectations for projects.  Watch person like a hawk.  Document every screw-up.  Once you have a handful of failures (late to work, project late, report not up to snuff, etc.), you fire them for being a lousy performer.

          The system isn't simple, but it can be worked.  What you need are hard-nosed bosses determined to root these "burrowers" out.

          •  Progressive discipline for low performance (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            neroden

            The right thing to do would be to fire the subverters for not doing their job. It's completely accurate and you can do it under civil service rules. Your Item 3 is how you do it. Be very specific in the job assignment with performance expectations laid out in advance. It may take a while, but if done thoughtfully the employee (even at GS-15 or SES) will either get with the program or get let go under the rules.

      •  We need to keep an eye out for all those (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden

        Justice Department Civil Service hires that Monica Goodling applied her special political test to.  They're like dynamite waiting for the fuse the be lit.

        I can see the end of Sarah Palin's political career from my house. Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin

        by Puddytat on Thu Nov 20, 2008 at 12:03:18 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  You're making this too difficult. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fnb, deedogg, bicycle Hussein paladin

      These folks can't do any harm to the agencies if we just round them up and send to Guantanomo.  Just sayin'.  I mean, we've got a friend of rounding-up-and-imprisoning-without-trial in charge of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, so no worries there.

    •  Send in the vigilant meerkats (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pescadero Bill

      ... two in the tunnel is worth one in the Bush.

      The patient peeps who have wanted change for years should be able to smoke 'em out.

      "Toads of Glory, slugs of joy... as he trotted down the path before a dragon ate him"-Alex Hall/ Stop McClintock

      by AmericanRiverCanyon on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 06:06:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  What Senate Committee would investigate (3+ / 0-)

      such abuses relating to Governmental Affairs?  I can't think of any.

      The netroots is what the Letters to the Editor page wanted to be when it grew up.

      by Seneca Doane on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 06:28:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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