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View Diary: Obama can ease unemployment IMMEDIATELY (189 comments)

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  •  This is completely incoherent and borders on (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    betson08

    the xenophobic.  

    The H1-B is the primary means that we are able to keep high tech jobs IN this country.  The problem isn't that there are too many H1-Bs, it is that (1)there are too few, (2) that the green card process is way too long, (3) that our higher education system is rapidly becoming priced beyond the reach of a majority of families in this country.

    Ending the H1-B program fixes NOTHING.  It would summarily guarantee the ending of our competitiveness in the world.  

    My personal experience with H1-B visas is that it was the only way to hire the person I wanted after interviewing several for a particular position.  Why?  Because I was interested in having someone with intimate knowledge of a foreign market - where the individual was from!  

    How about we stop blaming immigrants for the problems that we have brought on ourselves.  In the interim, I would prefer to at least keep the xenophobia on the Rethug side.  Amongst progressives, I would like to think we attempt to look beyond knee jerk nationalism and seek to understand the root causes of our difficulties instead.

    Obama/Biden '08 - I see a landslide in our future. Give here!

    by nsfbr on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 07:53:29 AM PST

    •  Most H1-B workers are (8+ / 0-)

      average workers doing average work.  They are just cheaper and beholden to the H1-B sponsor.

      The H1-B program discourages students from entering Science and Math fields due to the low wage prospects.

      •  Nice try. (0+ / 0-)

        But missing the point entirely.  The reason that they are beholden to the sponsor is that the green card process is broken.  I don't give a crap if they are average workers doing average work.  They are people who want to immigrate to the US, and immigration of highly educated people is the key to the US being competitive in the 21st century.  But whatever, you are getting all kinds of ratification because it sounds good.  Enjoy.

        Obama/Biden '08 - I see a landslide in our future. Give here!

        by nsfbr on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 05:29:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Stop Labeling IT Professional as Xenophobic (12+ / 0-)

      You could be labeled too but I won't do that.  We've had enough of that crap from the republicans.  You are just trying to diminish his viewpoints by calling him a name to make others view him as damaged goods.  Besides, if your logic was applied to America,

      Because I was interested in having someone with intimate knowledge of a foreign market - where the individual was from!

      then who knows the American market better than Americans.  You just shot yourself in the crotch for any argument you might have for hiring H1-B's in America.

      •  The conclusion doesn't follow your quote (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nsfbr

        He wanted someone with knowledge of a FOREIGN market, so how can you argue then that only an American doesn't know American markets if that wasn't his argument to begin with.

        I think the best qualified person should get the job, and we shouldn't put up trade barriers to better workers, whether they are white or blue collar. I also don't like the idea that nobody has a problem with gardeners and construction workers and hotel maids being foreign but when it's an actual white collar job that's being replaced people get up in arms. Next we'll go after the foreign-born nurses, and then we'll all be in big trouble because of our severe nurse shortage.

        To me this is all making a mountain out of a molehill, and stinks of a search for scapegoats.

        •  No red herrings and no straw men, please! (4+ / 0-)

          I also don't like the idea that nobody has a problem with gardeners and construction workers and hotel maids being foreign but when it's an actual white collar job that's being replaced people get up in arms.

          Who is this "nobody" of whom you speak?  Blue-collar job loss is also an important problem, most people on this site care about it and there is no evidence that the Diarist doesn't care about it.

          But the specific issue addressed by this diary is white-collar job-loss due to H1-B visas.  Other diaries on the site address "gardeners and construction workers and hotel maids".

        •  Excuse Me (4+ / 0-)

          If there truly is a shortage of workers for IT, then train Americans for these American jobs.  

          Regardless of what his argument was to begin with, that was his conclusion.  So, I just used his definition, not mine.

          Maybe you consider replacing Americans with foreign workers on American soil a "molehill" but to millions of Americans who can't get their foot in the door because their not "foreign" in their own land, I'm sorry but you are just beyond the pale.

          I don't know why to be progressive you think one has to be anti American worker.  That's not progressive, that's capitulation to corporate propaganda.  This is our sandbox and we'll make the rules.  You may prevail and absolutely destroy all American hopes, but I'll be fighting you every step of the way and I hope the American workers prevail over these pro international corporation views that you pass for progressivism.  It's not progressive for our society to fire Americans and hire foreign workers here to destroy our middle class.  That's regressive.

      •  I didn't label HIM I pointed out that his (0+ / 0-)

        diary is.  Try actually reading what I wrote, okay?

        I have no idea what you are speaking of with respect to my aim.  IT is not a market based occupation.  It is, get this, technology (loosely speaking) based.  The problem is that during the internet bubble, IT people got used to being paid many times their actual worth.  Now it is readjusting to reality.

        Obama/Biden '08 - I see a landslide in our future. Give here!

        by nsfbr on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 05:34:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Same Difference (0+ / 0-)

          His diary is his ideas put into print.  So when you're saying that his "ideas" are bordering on xenophobic it is the same thing as saying he is.  You can nuance your words all you want, but anyone with an ounce of understanding can read through it.

          I read what you wrote.  I just don't happen to agree with you.

    •  This disqualifies you, because (5+ / 0-)

      this is NOT what we talking about here:

      I was interested in having someone with intimate knowledge of a foreign market

      We are NOT talking here about jobs which require an "intimate knowledge of a foreign market".

      You are therefore clueless about the dynamics of the actual problem that we are talking about here.

      •  It doesn't disqualify me. (0+ / 0-)

        I gave an example of my personal experience with the H1-B program.  The diary claims that Obama should shut it down:

        Obama can ease the white collar unemployment problem by IMMEDIATELY shutting down the H1-B and L1 Visa program.

        So, yes, it is exactly what we are talking about here.  Just because you decide that my disagreement is counter to the very popular, but flawed premise of the diary, does not necessarily mean that I'm wrong.  No one has even attempted to read what I wrote.  That is quite sad in my view.

        Obama/Biden '08 - I see a landslide in our future. Give here!

        by nsfbr on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 05:38:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Another slippery slope argument (4+ / 0-)

      "borders on xenophobia" -- what you really mean is that you think he's probably a racist but you can't prove it. If you can't prove it, then STFU about it.

      If all your H-1B workers have always been better than your American workers, then I'd say you're probably working in one of the businesses that underpays workers (i.e., exploits workers), and your American workers are thus bottom-of-the-barrel workers.

      When the H-1B system is used appropriately, there is virtually no difference between the H-1B workers and the American workers. The H-1B workers are supposed to fill jobs for which no American worker can be found. Too many companies, though, want to exploit workers and not pay the market rate -- so they hire H-1B workers from third world countries who are willing to work for much, much less than qualified American workers. In those cases, the only Americans willing to work for that rate are ones who cannot find a better job due a lack of qualifications or skills.

      •  Umm no. (0+ / 0-)

        Why do I need to choose American workers?  I personally believe I should be able to choose the best person for the job.  You have no idea what the circumstances were.

        As to your overlaying some other meaning to what I said, well, that is entirely your problem, not mine.  I have no thought that the diarist is racist.  If I had thought so, I would have said so.  I just think that he, like so many here in this thread are misguided into believing that a flawed system is inherently wrong.  I say fix the effing system and stop blaming the visa holders for problems that were created by a corruption of the system that has held out the hope of permanent residence here.

        Obama/Biden '08 - I see a landslide in our future. Give here!

        by nsfbr on Sun Nov 23, 2008 at 05:43:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  the L word (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          uscitizenvoter

          Dude, you sound like a Libertarian, with a capital L. I'm sure you want to hire whoever you want, for the price you want to set. That's just the same kind of thinking that the union busters use to bring in the scabs.

          That's not liberal thinking though -- it's just another excuse the libertarians want to use to let the robber barons and the corporate mobs to ruin this country. You are fooling yourself if you think you are progressive or liberal.

    •  you are the one that is incoherent (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      uscitizenvoter, IT Professional

      OK, let's see if I have this straight. We can't keep tech jobs in the U.S. unless we have more H-1Bs. Fine, except that we are bleeding jobs. Of course you are probably just foolish enough to say that is proof we need more H-1Bs.

      Just how much of a beating are we all going to have to take while fools like you say H-1B is good for us? Get a clue -- losing your job to an H-1B isn't good, it's a disaster!

      You bash us as xenophobes while at the same time you want to steal our livliehoods by importing ever more of these high-tech braceros.

      Let's get one thing straight -- most of us aren't blaiming immigrants for this mess. We are blaming the globalists like you that think it's progressive to force hard working Americans into poverty.

      Shame on you!

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