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View Diary: Obama's DHS choice will harm U.S. workers (139 comments)

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  •  How is their staying a problem? (5+ / 0-)

    Wouldn't you rather have them here creating wealth rather than back in their country?

    The problem with there not being enough jobs is entirely due to our nation's priorities, not the labor market per se.  

    For example, let's say some sanity strikes and there is a major initiative to develop new energy - solar, wind, hydrogen, whatever - and a few million highly skilled workers are needed.  If this program is going to be ramped up in time to meet the next go round of petroleum-based cyclic energy crises (say, surely within the next decade - for example to even come close to meeting Al Gore-like objectives) foreign scientific talent will be needed.  

    Personally, I'd rather have the jobs here.  

    Or, we can simply outsource everything and have American workers (with or without the pittance of H & L workers who come over) fight over the few remaining good jobs.

    •  Because the program (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brooke In Seattle, dmnyct

      is not supposed to be an immigration program.  It actually flies in the face of the H1B program to begin with.  The program is for a limited time.  Three years, IIRC.  That's all.  It's not supposed to be a gateway to permanent residency.  

      I think that I have had enough of you telling me how things will be. Today I choose a new way to go ... and it goes through you!

      by Norbrook on Mon Nov 24, 2008 at 06:56:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh well, it seems like federal government (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        programs are often rather blunt tools - after all, were tax evasion laws intended to bring down major gangsters?  

        So, I guess one should just judge whether the end result is worth it or not.  

        And, I posit that this country has had a long history of doing well by sponging off of the top scientific talent of the rest of the world.  I'm not sure why we should rush to throw out the baby with the bathwater (clearly, if the programs are being abused, they should be tweaked as necessary . . .)

        •  Which is actually the point of the diary (5+ / 0-)

          The program was designed to enable businesses to fill temporary shortages.  I need X number of people with Y skill.  There's only Z number available here in the U.S., where Z < X.  By getting people from another country, I can fill that shortage until the number of people here in the U.S. meets my needs.  Thus, the H1B program.  The idea was (and is/was the law) that they would be here for three years and then return to their country.  That gave three years for the necessary skills to be developed in a sufficient number of people here.  

          Instead, what's happened is that companies realized that they could a)pay these people less; b) they could be treated like indentured servants since an H1B worker can't change employers for at specific time; c) they had no incentive to build that skill pool here.  Of course they don't want that to end!  

          In order to keep it that way, they moan about the continuing shortage.  They write job descriptions that no one can meet.  They offer sub-market salaries. They pull every trick in the book (the video is a small sample) to insure that they don't hire anyone here.  

          True story:  I used to work as an outsourcing consultant.  One of the firms we worked for had a real shortage of people in one department.  They decided to outsource it, citing the "lack of qualified personnel."  That was a lie.  As part of our work, we went through the HR files - they had  25 highly-qualified applicants waiting.  They didn't want to hire - they just used the shortage of people they currently had as an excuse.

          I think that I have had enough of you telling me how things will be. Today I choose a new way to go ... and it goes through you!

          by Norbrook on Mon Nov 24, 2008 at 07:29:09 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  They don't stay on H1B visas and it doens't (0+ / 0-)

        have non-immigrant intent attached so they can marry a permanent resident or USC and stay or a company can petition for them.

        Man. Some "progressives" make Archie Bunker look like Tim Wise.

        by JayGR on Mon Nov 24, 2008 at 07:49:39 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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