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View Diary: Anti-Prop 8 backlash changes minds (419 comments)

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  •  I'm sick of... (12+ / 0-)

    People telling me to stop 'focusing on being gay'.  I will not do that.  If that means my struggle will be harder and longer, so be it.  It also means it will be truer, and more likely to last and not be rescinded.

    I am gay.  We need to get people used to that and to get past all the religion-based bigotry that they cling to, or else nothing will change.  No matter what fancy jingoism you dress it all up in.

    Gay, straight, black, white...
    Marriage is a civil right!

    by joehoevah on Mon Nov 24, 2008 at 02:33:37 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  YES! Remember what Harvey said... (5+ / 0-)

      The anger and the frustrations that some of us feel is because we are misunderstood, and friends can’t feel that anger and frustration. They can sense it in us, but they can’t feel it. Because a friend has never gone through what is known as coming out. I will never forget what it was like coming out and having nobody to look up toward. I remember the lack of hope–and our friends can’t fulfill that.

    •  The problem was they didn't focus on gay people (13+ / 0-)

      didn't try to tell the stories of gay families. The campaign against prop 8 hid gay people and left their identity to the perverted imaginations of fundamentalists.

      •  Youre right (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I meant, focus on families, unions of two people.  I would suggest against emphasizing the gay part, but more on we are who we are, and we are no threat to you

        •  I would emphasize FAMILIES. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          "Meet Mrs. Smith. Here's her house, her three children, her white picket fence, and her wife. Here's why marriage is important to them..."

          The No on 8 campaign hid the gay people entirely and went with abstract phrases like freedom and discrimination and abstract slogans like "Unfair. Wrong."

          Unfortunately, you're right that any hint of sex turns people off to gay rights. I don't like it, and it shouldn't be true, but that's the broken world we live in. Which made that one Courage Campaign ad -- filled with penis jokes and dirty humor -- particularly unforgivable.

          So yeah -- introduce people to gay people's families; play up their children and mortgages and play down the sex stuff.

      •  Exactly. (10+ / 0-)

        There were commercials from No on 8 that dared not even mention what the proposition was about.  The word "gay" became the new "Voldemort".

        We can't just hide in the shadows and keep our fingers crossed that straight people won't notice that we're gay.  All that does is send the message that we have something to be ashamed of... that we're not quite certain that we deserve these rights we're asking for.

    •  You cannot escape religion (0+ / 0-)

      The country was FOUNDED on freedom of it, and it has been  taken hostage by the majority, and used for its own purposes.  Martin Luther King got past the Black part, and focused on the HUMAN part.  I understand your frustration, BUT, in this country, you have to learn and know the game, then PLAY it.  Railing against the machine in and of itself just makes for high blood pressure. Gte organized, get smart.  Does anyone actually beleive that poiticians really think what they say?  They take part of what they think we want to hear, and create a narrative.  For Prop 8 to pass, it has to be packaged differently.  

      •  We disagree. (7+ / 0-)

        I do not think that gay rights depends on an attitudee of internalized homophobia, sorry.  No amount of talking will convince me otherwise.  

        Gay, straight, black, white...
        Marriage is a civil right!

        by joehoevah on Mon Nov 24, 2008 at 02:56:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Read the story you're commenting on. (3+ / 0-)

        Railing against the machine in and of itself just makes for high blood pressure.

        Um, I don't know if you read the actual story that this is about, but railing against the machine in and of itself has already changed enough minds to defeat Prop 8 if the vote were today.

        •  You could have run a TV ad (0+ / 0-)

          Lets face it, Americans are whimscal.  I read the diary, and still think that an 8% change is nothing.  Its too little too late, and a guess at best.  What I am saying is, see what changed those peoples minds, see if its a possible mantra for your cause.  Polls vary from one speech, to one debate, to one tv ad to another all the time, so I wouldnt put too much hope in this fluctuation.  If you will remember, gay marraige WAS legal before.  So much for polls and the fickle nature of American people

          •  A guess? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Its too little too late, and a guess at best.

            It is all the evidence that is available. If you refuse to entertain the best that the evidence can offer, flawed as it may be, you can't call yourself a member of the reality-based community.

          •  You are talking to gay people (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            And your lofty BS is getting more than insulting.

            As if you would believe gay people wouldn't be familiar with all of the ins and outs of Prop 8.

            Since you have stated your position against Gay marriage and your advice is bordering on nonsense, perhaps you don't have anything else to add to the discussion that is meaningful.

            Looks more like someone interested in stirring the pot and trying to start arguments more than having any kind of meaningful discussions.


            WWYTR? Voting, contributing, supporting, and electing Democrats

            by PaintyKat on Mon Nov 24, 2008 at 08:12:51 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  No, it most absolutely was not. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PaintyKat, katynka, joehoevah

        This country was not founded on freedom of religion. Eleven years after the founding of this country, the adoption of the current Constitution and the Bill of Rights ADDED the freedom of religion.

    •  And how long and hard (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pender, joehoevah

      have we been working and cajoling our gay brothers and sisters to come out of the closet, proclaim their identities proudly, put rainbow stickers on their cars and hold hands with their significant others in public!

      It gives "get used to it" a lot more impact.

      (-7.75, -7.69) No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up - Lily Tomlin

      by john07801 on Mon Nov 24, 2008 at 02:52:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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