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View Diary: (UNRec This) We Can Question AND We Can Give Him A Chance (180 comments)

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  •  I don't understand (8+ / 0-)

    this notion of "not giving him a chance."

    He's president--he'll have every chance he needs and then some.

    It's not as if many commenters here have written him off.

    •  No, but many have proclaimed his administration (7+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, Dazy, highacidity, wader, kath25, Shhs, batgirl71

      to be "not progressive" or "center-right" already.

      And he's not President yet...that's why he needs the chance!

      Strategy '08: Obama vs. the other guy

      by dansac on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 08:36:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  They'll turn (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP, dewley notid, Johnny Q

        if and when he proves them wrong.

        •  In the meantime, they're authors/pundits/etc (7+ / 0-)

          who are helping to shape the discussion.  That's what's so damaging about it.  

          Strategy '08: Obama vs. the other guy

          by dansac on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 08:51:12 AM PST

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          •  I think criticism has been fairly limited (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            In what I've read, people have been criticizing cabinet picks or specific comments, not the general tenor of the administration.  And it's totally fair to call the cabinet thus far "not progressive" and moderate, those are accurate descriptors; not bloviations or exaggerations, just truths.

            It seems like some people are living in this fantasy world where Obama can do no wrong--and although I love the guy and worked my tail off to get him elected (dating back 16 months), some things he has said and done have been harmful and diverge from my own views.  And I will continue to criticize those choices that Obama makes that I would make differently.  That's the way a Democracy works and, I hope, it's the way our party works as well.

            "All generalizations are false, including this one." -Mark Twain

            by New England Liberal Elitist on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 08:59:50 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  difference between a cult and a movement (4+ / 0-)

              A cult believes that everything comes out of the mouth of the leader is the absolute truth a movement doesn't.

              I believe that if we want the movement to succeed it is important that we question and challenge the soon to be Obama administration. I think it is important to do it in a thoughtful and constructive manner. If we disagree we should ask him to explain is thinking to us.

              There are currently two scenarios-
              a. Obama wants to exist in an echo chamber and therefore has appointed a series of advisor who think like he does
              b. Obama wants a group of advisors who don't think like he does and therefore his personal views are to the left and more progressive than those of his advisors.

              I was attracted to Obama's candicacy because unlike GWB he appeared to be somebody who demonstrated genuine intellectual curiosity- therefore I lean towards the second scenario.

              •  I would posit a third (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Question Authority

                He's appointed smart, experienced people that he respects to get their opinions on matters -- at the end of the day, he'll agree with some, not others.  He'll agree on some issues, not others -- but he's put together a process by which he gets the competing and rational view points upon which he makes a considered decision.

                At the end of the day, I may not agree with the decision he makes.  But I'll respect the process by which he does it...

            •  Agreed about limited criticism (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Johnny Q, thethinveil

              I mean, let's step back a moment, shall we?

              Obama just named as his Secretary of Defense a Bush-selected, neocon-staffed, Iran-Contra tainted official.

              I think Obama should be thankful that the outcry on the left is so muted. In fact, I'm not sure it speaks well of the left.

              •  I think it speaks well of the left ..... (0+ / 0-)

                The fact that we can voice our discomfort with a Gates pick without going nuclear, says a lot about the maturity of many of us.

                I am sure Obama knows that we are not pleased with that pick....but with the global economic meltdown...I think having some continuity there is critical. Remember Hilary and her circus of performers will be riding in to the state department soon and causing their own drama - so at least something should be stable in the chaos that I expect around the corner.

                I however, am pleased Gates will remain and I look forward to my President issuing him the orders to get our troops the hell out of Iraq. I hope after Gates spends the year working on the exit strategy and beginning the exit, that our new Sec Defense - A democrat will be able to close the deal.....well at least I can dream

        •  No some of them won't but I don't (0+ / 0-)

          really care.

          "...the fundamentals of our economy are strong"- John Sidney McCain 09/15/08

          by Shhs on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 08:51:59 AM PST

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      •  We don't know what his plans for Iraq are (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP, dewley notid, NCrissieB

        He may, as promised, remove all combat troops in 16 mos, and he may not.  As TomP noted in the diary that you admired, Gates has taken a very different approach in the past.  We have no idea whether the past Gates approach or the past Obama approach will be followed here.

        On balance, I was hoping for more out of the box thinking than I've seen thus far.  If a Gooper needs to be in the cabinet, how about Patrick Fitzgerald or Lincoln Chaffee?  There's little I've ever seen of HRC on foreign policy issues that has done much for me--will she now eagerly engage in the direct negotiations w/ Iran that she publicly disdained in the primaries?

        It's still very early, but I was hoping for a little better than I've been seeing thus far.

        Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

        by RFK Lives on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 08:54:00 AM PST

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        •  I think the military is his main concern with (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP, pamelabrown, NCrissieB, pstoller78

          Gates.  Obama wants their loyalty, which is never guaranteed to a Democrat and Obama already knows it.  Gates is a goodwill gesture to them as they trust Gates and Gates is the stability that Rumsfield took from them.  Removing him, especially if he seems willing to go with the program for a year, would be unnecessary agitation when there is another way possible to get the military both used to Obama and the person who is going to replace Gates.  

        •  I don't much like Gates either. (4+ / 0-)

          However, let's remember that the Bob Gates we've seen is Bob Gates executing George Bush policy.  Events could prove me wrong, but I don't think Obama would be keeping Gates on if Obama weren't confident that Gates will execute Obama policy.

          And as NWind notes below, Obama knows that some in the Pentagon are just itching for a fight with him.  They want Obama to do something with which they can not simply disagree, but disagree strongly enough to force a White House crisis.  They want to "put him in his place," because they know that's the only way to protect their $1 trillion/year budget ... and for a lot of them, "budgetary security" and "national security" mean the same thing.

          Keeping Gates might - might - help Obama win that first fight with the Pentagon, and cement him as their Commander in Chief.  If it does, it'll go down as a brilliant choice.

        •  My thinking as well (0+ / 0-)

          If it were just Gates, or just Hillary, or just the "revised" interpretation regarding tax increases for the wealthy, I would be more relaxed.

          But I can't help wonder if I'm not seeing a pattern of a more "center-right" governance evolving, which I worry won't be the change we were all hoping for.

      •  It's not about "giving him a chance" (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dansac, nycjoc, Johnny Q

        It's about jockeying for power.

        Those of you who think this is about chances and trust are missing the point of politics.

        I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day
        Neither is California High Speed Rail

        by eugene on Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 09:12:22 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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