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View Diary: MO-Sen: As expected, Bond (R) is in trouble (134 comments)

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  •  Today you are in favor (8+ / 0-)

    of political family power but yesterday not so much? (Kennedy NY Senate)

    •  To be fair (11+ / 0-)

      Robin Carnahan has proven herself in public office.  Caroline Kennedy has not.

      Pragmatic progressivism is the future.

      by Pragmaticus on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:35:47 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  To be even more fair. . . (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MA Liberal, Do Tell, beltane

        Markos' opposition to political dynasties doesn't seem to involve whether or not the person is elected to office, only that they are a relative of a previous office holder.

        There is extraordinary cognitive dissonance, to say the least, in "hating" dynasties one day and applauding them the next.

        John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

        by LarryInNYC on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:38:58 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          MA Liberal

          Who cares what family they came from, as long as they're qualified and will make a good candidate.

          Besides, Obama is a distant cousin of Darth Cheney. According to some people's oppositions to political dynasties, Obama would be disqualified from being president based on that.

        •  please (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Odysseus, dufffbeer, pedmom, Varlokkur

          your first sentence makes no sense and contradicts your message, if you have one.  both kennedy and carnahan are relatives of previous office holders.

          and who is "applauding" dynasties today?  only your strawman.

          robin carnahan is an extremely well-qualified public servant.  she is the best secretary of state that missouri has had in recent memory, and perhaps ever.  

          there's a big difference from having your family name being a big plus on top of your proven record as a public servant, and having nothing but your family name and a sense of entitlement.

          •  Oh please. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MA Liberal, Do Tell

            Yesterday -- and in the past -- Markos (as well as many, many other people here) wrote that political dynasties are inherently bad.  He said he hated them.  That was in the context of Kennedy getting the nod to fill Clinton's seat, but he's also said the same thing about Clinton running for President (after being elected to the Senate twice).

            His stated opposition to "dynasties" is general and without nuance.  Sometimes.  Other times (Carnahan, Salazar, Udall) it's full speed ahead.  Why is that?

            John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

            by LarryInNYC on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:53:38 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  The comparion of Caroline and Robin Carnahan (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Odysseus

            is not the correct one.
            It was Robin's mother who was appointed to her husband's seat after he died. And I'd say that she had far fewer credentials than Caroline does.
            Robin Carnahan has simply used her family name to help make a career. She may be talented, but her name has certainly not hurt her either.

            Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

            by MA Liberal on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:03:00 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  But Markos' (and other peoples). . . (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MA Liberal, Do Tell

              object to "dynasty" don't seem to involve the person's native talent.  They simply condemn the person for being who they are.  They (apparently) see no difference between George Bush and Hillary Clinton in that regard.

              And then, of course, with certain other families, there seems to be no problem.  While I prefer to judge each person on their own merits, irrespective of their family history, I can see the logic in the other position as well.  As long as it is applied fairly and consistently.

              What I can't figure out is why the Clinton and Kennedy clans are deserving of "hate" while the Carnahan, Udall, and Salazar clans are deserving of active fundraising.  Is it a necessary evil in order to win in otherwise red districts?  Does it somehow have to do with the positions that the respective families hold?  Is it related to money -- rich dynasties are bad, but middle class dynasties are ok?  Or is it just a double standard?

              John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

              by LarryInNYC on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:21:47 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Not the same thing (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Odysseus

        Robin's MOM was given Mel's seat after he died. That is a more fair comparison. And I'd say that Caroline has more credentials than Mrs. Carnahan did.
        Appointments like these happen all the time. Why is it Caroline Kennedy that everyone's bitching about?

        Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

        by MA Liberal on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:00:27 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  ok consider this a bitch that Mrs. Carnahan (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Odysseus

          was chosen.

        •  But she sort of ran for the seat. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pedmom

          Voters knew when they voted that Mel Carnahan's wife would get the seat, it wasn't a surprise to any voters.  I am also not a fan political dynasties.  I'd say in the case of the Carnahan family, it bothers me a lot more with Russ then Robin.  Russ Carnahan ran for Dick Gephardt's seat when he ran for president, mostly on his name.  There was an excellent documentary about it called Can Mr. Smith get to Washington Anymore?, following a school teacher named Jeff Smith that ran against him in the primary, and fought and scrambled for every vote, and just barely lost.  It's quite a story.  

          The inescapable truth is that as much as we might dislike political dynasties, having name recognition is a help in a society filled with low information voters.  And we've had some very good people from dynasties, like Ted Kennedy and Al Gore.  We can fight against them, but wishing them away doesn't change the fact that they are a large force in politics.

          •  I worked for Mr. Smith in his campaign against... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Donkey Hotey

            Russ.  Russ is my Rep and Jeff Smith is my state senator now.  Russ really has a seat  for life.  The district is pretty well gerrymandered to remain Democratic.  I have yet to see a Russ Carnahan yard sign in the district since 2004.  He's a solid Democrat but far from an impressive legislator

            Grandma used to call me "That One" but she had twenty-something grand-kids and Alzheimers. Now, that "That one" is President!

            by duckhunter on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:08:03 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  LOL. I almost wrote the same thing but (8+ / 0-)

      decided to write about Robin instead because I really like her and want this community to get to know her.

    •  Robin Carnahan is an elected secretary of state. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, Pragmaticus

      Scoff if you must, but that's more'n you ever did.

      1/20/09: The Suck Stops Here

      by phenry on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:37:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, MA Liberal, Do Tell

      But I too picked up on the irony of the timing and tone in the two posts separated by one day and by a world of difference on the red-blue-purple spectrum.

    •  Just wrote the same thing downthread (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, Do Tell

      Defenders of the Kos opinion on Kennedy call Robin Carnahan a well qualified public servant. perhaps so, but was her mom? Her mom was the one appointed to Mel's seat after he died.
      And how about Beau Biden? Talk was that he was going to be appointed to dad's seat. No one bitched about that.
      It's amazing how many people dislike the Kennedys. Usually it's the younger ones who don't remember Jack, Bobby or the 60's.

      Electing conservatives is like hiring a carpenter who thinks hammers are evil.

      by MA Liberal on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:59:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It would be nice to elect more Ds who are not (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus, Do Tell

      named Carnahan in MO.  On the other hand, in this case, there are two and only options - Bond or Carnahan.

    •  kos was against monarchies before he was (0+ / 0-)

      for them.  

      I guess he really likes the Carnahan clan and maybe the Kennedy clan not so much.  

      Nope, I see no contradiction there.  

    •  Who said I'm in favor of it? (0+ / 0-)

      She's running for the seat, I polled the likely candidates.

      But if you want my opinion, at least Robin Carnahan is out there beating Republicans at the polls. Caroline Kennedy wants to be avoid the dirty work of actually talking to voters and getting elected.

      •  And to be clear (0+ / 0-)

        I'll always respect a Schweitzer, Webb, or Obama more than I'll respect someone who trades in familial connections to get ahead (e.g. Herseth, Sebelius, Clinton, the younger Biden, etc). It's an inevitable part of the system, sure, but I'm more impressed by the self-made over-achievers.

        And for the record, I opposed Russ Carnahan's House run in the primary in large part because of the "dynasty" aspect. But in this case, there is no primary. Robin will clear the field.

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