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View Diary: BREAKING!! Chertoff's home cleaned by ... illegal immigrants! (217 comments)

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  •  Accurate term is "undocumented" - not "illegal" (12+ / 0-)

    Asian American Journalists Association:

    Any reference to "illegals" or "illegal aliens" can heighten xenophobia, skew public debate on immigration issues, and put the lives and well-being of all non-U.S. citizens (undocumented and documented) in this country at risk by suggesting they are criminals and do not belong in the U.S.

    Thanks.

    A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged.

    by raatz on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 09:00:39 PM PST

    •  Good point. (4+ / 0-)

      Thank you.

      I had the blues so bad one time, it put my face in a permanent frown- but I'm feelin' so much better I can cakewalk into town..

      by Remembering Jello on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 09:04:55 PM PST

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    •  undocumented is illegal (0+ / 0-)

      a person who is not a citizen and is in this country without documentation and approval is HERE ILLEGALLY

      what part of that do you not understand ???

      •  You're wrong (5+ / 0-)

        National Association of Hispanic Journalists:

        NAHJ is concerned with the increasing use of pejorative terms to describe the estimated 11 million undocumented people living in the United States. NAHJ is particularly troubled with the growing trend of the news media to use the word "illegals" as a noun, shorthand for "illegal aliens". Using the word in this way is grammatically incorrect and crosses the line by criminalizing the person, not the action they are purported to have committed. NAHJ calls on the media to never use "illegals" in headlines.

        Shortening the term in this way also stereotypes undocumented people who are in the United States as having committed a crime. Under current U.S. immigration law, being an undocumented immigrant is not a crime, it is a civil violation. Furthermore, an estimated 40 percent of all undocumented people living in the U.S. are visa overstayers, meaning they did not illegally cross the U.S. border.

        In addition, the association has always denounced the use of the degrading terms "alien" and "illegal alien" to describe undocumented immigrants because it casts them as adverse, strange beings, inhuman outsiders who come to the U.S. with questionable motivations. "Aliens" is a bureaucratic term that should be avoided unless used in a quote.

        But thanks for your thoughtful expression of concern.

        A liberal is a conservative who's been hugged.

        by raatz on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 11:10:31 PM PST

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        •  splitting hairs don't work on me (0+ / 0-)

          Under current U.S. immigration law, being an undocumented immigrant is not a crime, it is a civil violation.

          check the records, there ain't too many "Civil Violations" that you can be incarcerated and deported for

          I've been involved in cases where "civil violations" border on criminal violations, and the distinction is really pointless

          if you can be arrested and detained for the act, it's a crime

          the space between civil violations and criminal acts is vague. the standard for incarceration serves as a better guide, since it almost impossible to be arrested for a true "civil violation" outside an act of contempt in a courtroom

          it don't help the cause to play word games to hide from reality

          if you can be incarcerated and deported, you're committing a crime

          •  Considering that you can be incarcerated... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AmericanRiverCanyon

            and held for questioning on suspicion of a crime before any charges are filed, trying to define one's legal status by the fact they've been in jail seems backward.

            And its "splitting hairs doesn't work on me." Or an I splitting hairs thinking language is important?

            If it were true, they couldn't say it on Fox News. -6.62 -5.90

            by PBCliberal on Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 12:24:14 AM PST

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            •  if words are importand, read your own words (0+ / 0-)

              Considering that you can be incarcerated and held for questioning on suspicion of a crime before any charges are filed, trying to define one's legal status by the fact they've been in jail seems backward.

              I guess the topic must have slipped your mind

              we were discussing the difference between a "CRIME" and a "CIVIL VIOLATION"

              and that's the difference (thanks for highlighing it)

              you can be DETAINED and INCARCERATED when you are suspected of A CRIME

              when you are suspected of a CIVIL VIOLATION, you ARE NOT detained and incarcerated

              now

              what happens when the police encounter a person who has over stayed a visa ???

              same thing that happens when you are here without any documents at all

              you get detained and incarcerated

              in the case of illegal immigrants, the only distinction between a crime and a civil violation is made to make the government's job easier

              the burden of proof is lower for civil violations than the equivalent burden of proof in a criminal case

              welcome to where reality meets the legal world

              •  Missed another point Zapp (3+ / 0-)

                Many "illegal" immigrants do in fact have relief under the law.  An asylum seeker is "illegal" to you, but legal under international law and for that matter under US law.  I have known US citizens who were detained by ICE and later released.  I've also known immigrants who have been held sometimes for months without charging documents, or coerced into signing stipulated orders of removal when the law actually was on their side and when they would have been entitled to stay.

                I learned some time ago that an "illegal" is only illegal when their case is adjudicated.  Until then, it's a lot more respectful to call them "undocumented" or "without status".

                "The red is going out. It's getting more bluer."

                by ivorybill on Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 03:06:12 AM PST

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                •  My robbing of a bank (0+ / 0-)

                  would be illegal even without adjudication or arrest.

                  •  Totally irrelevant (0+ / 0-)

                    First, robbing a bank is a criminal matter; immigration status is an administrative law matter.

                    Second, it is legal under international law (Refugee Convention) and for that matter, under US law, to seek asylum.  Some "illegals" are not illegal even if they do not have papers.

                    I suspect you knew this, if you read the comment before replying.  But hey, don't let reality or logic get in the way of your knee-jerk response.  

                    "The red is going out. It's getting more bluer."

                    by ivorybill on Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 10:11:27 AM PST

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                •  detention = illegal (0+ / 0-)

                  it's like the bank robbing thingy

                  detention raises the stakes

                  I keep tryin to splain to people that you cannot be detained under the legal standards required for a civil violation

                  for a civil violation, the standard of guilt is "a reasonable argument"

                  for a criminal violation, the standard is "Beyond A Reasonable Doubt"

                  a person can't be detained on the standard of a civil violation, so if you are detained on a civil violation, you are being held on a criminal standard for the purposes of adjudicating your case. Bail can be required (or, as in most immigrant cases, denied)

                  so Illegal immigrants are held as criminal suspects, for all intents and purposes, but their cases can be tried as a civil matter, so the courts don't get clogged up with thousands of immigrant cases

                  it's a weird legal loophole, but trust me, I've experienced it

                  and as to the international laws and stuff, in all my court room experience (mostly as a defendant), I've never seen it mentioned. And I've been forced to sit thru more than a few deportation proceedings

    •  What? (0+ / 0-)

      Uh this is PC nonsense. They are working AND entering this country illegally. Has ZERO to do with race or xenophobia I wouldn't change my view if those coming into this country illegally were Norwegians. The operative word IS illegal!

      My d-i-l is here in this country legally.  Try telling her this nonsense. (And NO she's not a northern or southern European i.e. white)

      http://www.epluribusmedia.org/donate.htm

      by Soma on Thu Dec 11, 2008 at 12:27:10 AM PST

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