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View Diary: Tales from Auto Industry Bailout's Ground Zero (288 comments)

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  •  Earth to TheOtherMaven and diarist. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sparhawk, Verstand

    Are you REALLY going to tell people who have put twenty-thirty years of their lives into their jobs that they can't have health insurance, can't have pensions, can't have ANY security and should just fuck off and die?

    No, I never said anything like that. The diarist said:

    We owe American workers, who had nothing to do with the onset of the economic crisis or the strategy of auto management, the benefits and pay they agreed to

    I said the union workers shouldn't expect to get everything they agreed to, just like they would if the economy remained normal. That's a far cry from saying they should get nothing.

    If the union is already agreeing to wage or benefit concessions, then you need to complain to the diarist for not saying so, and for implying the opposite.

    And, BTW, in return for wage and benefit concesssions the UAW should be insisting on board seats and stock or stock options -- so they can share in management decisions on product development, executive and non-exec compensation, and everything else that goes into keeping a company out of the ditch.

    "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

    by HeyMikey on Fri Dec 12, 2008 at 02:16:47 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Oh, and . . . (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      maynard, Verstand

      Why don't you provide links to some of the non-circle-jerk media, documenting the concessions the union has already made? I would genuinely (no snark) be interested, and I bet a lot of other readers would be, too.

      "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

      by HeyMikey on Fri Dec 12, 2008 at 02:22:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You don't know shit, do you? (4+ / 0-)

        Seriously.

        You think your relatives and friends are hurting now, watch what happens to the U.S. economy after GM goes down.

        That'll be a sound in the financial markets as loud as if the president announced the U.S. no longer stands behind its bonds.

        Seriously.

        And the rest of the world knows it. Why do you think Japan's stock exchange tanked overnight? Why do you think the Dow Jones was set to open 5% in the hole before Bush announced he was willing to use TARP as a stop-gap to prevent the autos from going bankrupt? And that was just speculation in the markets about what WOULD happen if the autos bit it. Do you know how much worse it would be if GM actually liquidated? Shit. It'd be like AIG going down. AIG moves money. GM actually makes things, and the real investors know it.

        Go on and support cutting off your nose to spite your face. Me, I like my face too much to do that.

        •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

          You imply I'm against the bailout, and would allow the Big 3 to just vanish. But the first thing I said in my original comment was:

          Let's be clear: I'd have held my nose and voted for the bailout. Even knowing $15 billion or so is only a down payment on the $50 to $75 billion Barney Frank thinks will eventually be needed.

          "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

          by HeyMikey on Sat Dec 13, 2008 at 08:04:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I'll help you out Mikey. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        javelina, BruinKid, Dirtandiron, chrome327

        Here's the UAW concessions at Time and then read this post at Think Progress.

        I suggest you read a bit.

        •  Too late to recommend, or I would. (0+ / 0-)

          Thanks for the links.

          "The true strength of our nation comes not from the might of our arms or the scale of our wealth, but from the enduring power of our ideals." - Barack Obama

          by HeyMikey on Sat Dec 13, 2008 at 08:01:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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