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View Diary: Can we afford to reduce CO2 emissions? UPDATED and w/Poll (50 comments)

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  •  world (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BruceMcF

    Is the right word. Especially with the rise of China and India, it's fruitless to think or talk about the environment in nationalistic terms.

    Individual countries can make improvements, and Germany is a good example of this. But actually avoiding catastrophic climate change requires global cooperation. From sharing research, manufacturing, expertise, etc. to enforcing standards with trade treaties.

    Live Free Or Do Whatever It Takes So I Don't Die

    by nasarius on Sat Dec 27, 2008 at 06:34:51 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, the latest excuse by the big emitters ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MCinNH

      ... is "we can't do anything unless China moves first".

      Obviously, putting in a serious cap in high income nations and forcing industry down the path of reducing their carbon footprint is one part of developing the future technology that China will be adopting in the decades ahead.

      •  it's my understanding that (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BruceMcF, petral

        $125B of the Chinese $500B economic stimulus package is going to greentech. Which is a good start.

        Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

        by alizard on Sat Dec 27, 2008 at 06:53:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Chinese (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BruceMcF

          already have installed tens of millions of solar hot water heaters in homes. Hundreds of factories putting out cutting edge hot water collector systems.
          Our own home-grown pioneers in this field were mocked and ridiculed and forgotten 30 years ago.

          The handwriting has been on the wall for decades, for those awake enough to see.  But, gosh, it must be real now, because it is in the NYT this morning.

          How's that coffee smell, America?

          don't always believe what you think...

          by claude on Sat Dec 27, 2008 at 07:07:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  got vendor names (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BruceMcF

            and/or website URLs? Not all of us are going to want to wait until Walmart or Lowe's gets around to making these products available, and there may be some entepreneurs around here who might like a hands-on look at these "cutting edge" Chinese products.

            Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

            by alizard on Sun Dec 28, 2008 at 01:36:04 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  A guy I know, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BruceMcF

              who regularly ships containers here from China, bought a couple of the setups, with tubes, manifold, control system. I got to handle them as we uncrated them. The glass tubes, double walled giant test tubes about 2 1/2 inches in diameter and nearly six feet long. They are weighty and probably pretty tough.  An assembly of thin copper sheet, cunningly contrived to slide in ther, transfers what it collects to a copper tube that fits though a srubber stopper and ends as a very coarse male thread. This screws into a manifold such that this hot copper insert is in the water path. The basic unit is a dozen of these tubes, mounted close together, resting on a rack, and these can be joined up ad infinitum.

              Another version has the tubes inserted into a storage tank, well-insulated.

              The actual glass tubes thingies were exquisite design and amazingly effective in collecting heat from the sun. The control stuff looked fairly primitive and clunky.

              I assembled one of the tubes with the copper inserts. It was a late winter afternoon, but just laying on the ground, the copper end sticking out of the glass tube was quickly too hot to touch.

              At that time, he was thinking of importing them, but didn't want to go through the hassle of getting them UL approved, no small task.  I think by now someone has gotten these certified, because they are starting to show up. My plumber, for instance, knows about them.

              I don't have any links handy, but this site  lists over 3000 Chinese water heater sites.

              don't always believe what you think...

              by claude on Tue Dec 30, 2008 at 07:09:23 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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