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View Diary: Politico versus Politico (77 comments)

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  •  Lowering the interest rate (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mkor7

    on credit card and student loan debt would provide more of a stimulus than a tax cut. But I'm just one of the little people, so what do I know.

    The weak in courage is strong in cunning-William Blake

    by beltane on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 06:38:09 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Good idea (0+ / 0-)

      Student loans and credit card fits in with helping people renegotiate their mortgage rates since it will have a more lasting impact on disposal income for spending.

    •  by its not just that we are little people (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      beltane

      it is that people are all to willng to fall over themselves for Obama rather than objectively listening to what economists have been saying. I am taking my cue from them. Most of them have been saying, whether tehy are conservative or liberal, that tax cuts won't work. The only people arguing tax cuts until last week were the Republicans. Now, that Obama has said it, others are falling into line due to Obama being a Democrat rather than becausehe is right. I wish I were wrong on this, but there is really no other reasonable conclusion. In other words, its that there are not enough people trying to hold Obama accountable as to whether his ideas reflect what economists have said need to be done.

      •  Speaking out on this issue (0+ / 0-)

        is important, and is not an attack on Obama. http://www.balloon-juice.com/... . One of the big mistakes of the Clinton years was that the left became oddly passive and silent.

        The weak in courage is strong in cunning-William Blake

        by beltane on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 07:04:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  This is not left versus right (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          beltane

          This is accountable based on objective standards versus "I trust him because he's Obama, and he's my leader."

          The later is not about Obama other than Obama will certainly accept this type of support. It's really about the supporter mentality involved.

          Look, here's my problem regarding accountability here in a nutshell:

          This was my thesis as to my problem with Obama:

          If you are looking in ordinary business for the price point (the point where a deal can be made) to be $5, but the opposing party wants it closer to zero, you don't start with $5. You start with $10.00. If you start with $10, you are more likely to get five. His negotiating style starts at $5.

          My friend (a more ardent Obama supporter than myself) got mad. started yelling at me, and did the normal liberal democrat thing of saying "that's stupid. No one is going to give you $10, and if you start at such a stupid negotiation point, you aren't going to get anything at all." That's the Obama mentality in a nutshell. They assume they aren't going to get anything and thus low ball the negotiation. They don't fight for it at all.

          Of course, what will happen now is that the GOP will still fight Obama on this. Say that they have a problem with the plan, and require more concessions. This crappy plan will get worse, not better, unless Congressional Dems are willing to fight the new party leader on this. The GOP will obstruct, and hope to keep the economy bad through the mid terms of next year so that they can run on the economy against Obama and the Democrats.

          They , like me, probably have seen that economists have said that this recession /depression could last anywhere from 1 to 5 years depending on the steps taken under Kensian type spending to stop it. That's the context.

          So, we start at 5 rather than 10, and thus, we will not get even 5.

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