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View Diary: Moving Forward? Here Are The Rules. (84 comments)

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  •  What is voting accordingly.... (0+ / 0-)

    given in this country we have a 2 party system?

    Obama/Biden'08 Delivering Change he Promised

    by dvogel001 on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 11:58:55 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  There are more parties (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Edger

      I'd rather not support them, but I COULD vote for them if I feel dems do not represent me.

      I demand prosecutions for torture.

      by heart of a quince on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 12:00:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  That is what 97,000 voters in FL (0+ / 0-)

        and 8,000 voters in NH said in 2000...how did that work out in terms of preventing constitutional transgressions...?

        Obama/Biden'08 Delivering Change he Promised

        by dvogel001 on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 12:03:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Like I said (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Edger

          I'd rather not go that route, but I will if the dems let war criminals skate.

          I demand prosecutions for torture.

          by heart of a quince on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 12:05:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I understand... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            heart of a quince

            for me...it is more about the reforms than the prosecutions...Obama did not participate in that administration and he is committed to changing criminal policies...

            That is enough for me...not that I would be sad if I saw GWB and DC in jail...but I think that as a political calculation it would ruin any chances of any bi-partisan legislation and a new tone in Washington...as politically calculating as that sounds...

            My mom is with you on this...however...so you are not alone...

            Obama/Biden'08 Delivering Change he Promised

            by dvogel001 on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 12:10:25 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  So you support of letting war criminals (0+ / 0-)

              and torturers off the hook, for hoped for political gain, yet you also support the destruction of Obama's political effectiveness and career.

              Thanks. You define yourself.

              •  Thanks for twisting what I said... (0+ / 0-)

                like a pretzel...other than that I have no comment...

                Obama/Biden'08 Delivering Change he Promised

                by dvogel001 on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 12:43:58 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes or no? (0+ / 0-)

                  It's simple question. Even you can handle it.

                  •  No I am a realist and believe... (0+ / 0-)

                    that it is better for our country to learn from its mistakes and make reforms rather than be mired down in legal battle after legal battle.

                    In the end, the GWB administration would say they acted in good faith relying on legal opinions of the AG and doing what they believed was best for protecting this country.  Do I believe that, no.  But would it be enough to produce reasonable doubt in a jury and/or a hung jury....I believe yes.

                    So then the question is, what is more important, further dividing this country over a failed presidency or moving forward with an aggressive change agenda including reforms that clearly spell out legal and illegal acts of interrogation.

                    In a reality based community, there are rarely yes or no answers, that is how the RW try to frame issues in black and white...in many cases life is more complicated than that.

                    So I am in favor of aggressive hearings and crafting legislation to correct these travesties of justice from happening in the future.

                    Obama/Biden'08 Delivering Change he Promised

                    by dvogel001 on Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 05:03:45 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  The reforms are not enough (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Edger

              I agree that we dearly need those reforms. The problem is that they are meaningless without the prosecutions. Without the prosecutions the next republican administration will just take it even further. These people must face justice or we will just get criminal administrations again and again and again. That is totally unacceptable.

              I demand prosecutions for torture.

              by heart of a quince on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 01:28:30 PM PST

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              •  There is enough reasonable doubt... (0+ / 0-)

                in any case against GWB and DC that would never convict...I know that makes you mad...but in the end they have their reasons and those reasons even though you and I disagree with them...add up to reasonable doubt in a court of law...

                So you can rant and rave and blame Obama all you want..but it won't change a thing...except electing more Republicans...

                It is not true that Watergate did not change anything.  Legislation enacted after Watergate protected our country from abuses of presidential power for 30 years.  Now we need to reel it in again.

                Obama/Biden'08 Delivering Change he Promised

                by dvogel001 on Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 05:07:50 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  nadler who used the two party system (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Edger

      as an argument against impeachment is fully in support  of prosecutions.

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