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View Diary: Conyers Explains Why He Hasn't Impeached (253 comments)

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  •  After the hearings, who asked Nixon to resign? (9+ / 0-)

    George Herbert Walker Bush. It was not numbers, math, it was the preponderance of the evidence. The facts, as laid out by the hearings, built the case for impeachment of Richard Milhouse Nixon. I have more faith in the Constitution. Proceeding with hearings.

    The burden on the "high crimes and misdemeanors" for the House do not rise to the level that Patrick Fitzgerald required for a criminal prosecution of Cheney, for example, that cloud he mentioned along the way to Libby's indictment. Jeebus, go after the barnacle first.

    My point is the pocket version of the Constitution Sen. Byrd sent me. I guess I am just one of those naive Appalachian white voters who voted for Obama. I thought the President was supposed to faithfully executes the laws passed by Congress, like FISA. Not issue piles of signing statements saying he is a quasi Article III institution and can ignore the law. Veto the sucker, George.

    Clinton was a Republican.

    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices--François-Marie Arouet

    by CA Berkeley WV on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 11:44:28 PM PST

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    •  Name the 17 Republican Senators (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      musing85

      The ones who would have gone against their party to remove Bush.

      Start by naming five.  

      And also, tell me that you think the Republican party hasn't dramatically changed since the early 1970's.  

      "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

      by Dana Houle on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 11:45:57 PM PST

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      •  plantation senators on the Patowmack (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        conchita

        Collins
        Snowe
        Warner
        Lugar
        Voinovich
        Specter, if it is not two years before his re-election
        Huckleberry Lindsay, maybe, he is JAG

        Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices--François-Marie Arouet

        by CA Berkeley WV on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 11:51:06 PM PST

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        •  Please (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          musing85, MajorFlaw

          Warner, Lugar and Graham roll over at every opportunity.  Voinovich almost always does.  Collins is a party hack on just about everything other than choice and gay issues.  Only Snowe and Warner would have seriously considered it.  

          "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

          by Dana Houle on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 11:53:08 PM PST

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          •  Meant to Say... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            musing85, MajorFlaw

            ...SPECTER, Lugar and Graham, not Warner.  

            "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

            by Dana Houle on Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 12:07:26 AM PST

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            •  So I may have gotten some right? (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rmx2630, KenBee, wvablue, thethinveil

              Gordon Smith.

              I will give my father-in-law, a Wolverine, the credit. The House still starts the impeachment. There is always tension between the two sides of the Capitol. I am just a peoples, but Specter is a different animal the first four years of his term, like Bayh is also.

              How did I miss all these hearings into impeachable offense Conyers had? Are we talking about the basement meetings? I remember thinking that the articles that Kucinich laid in his resolutions later were not the correct ones. Congress has given up its power to declare war over and over, so that reason never held water for me. It was Richard Bruce's reach to shift the balance or power on Penn. Ave. that I found the most offensive. The smug "I don't have to show you no stinking badges" attitude about how he executed the duties as the barnacle of the Constitution that spoils my week. It starts with Constitution Day, includes Talk Like a Pirate Day, and five family birthdays, including mine.

              I will still argue that the House had its own obligation, its first step, not pre-conditioned by a Ouija board reading of the second step. If members had more respect for the fact that they are Article I, first for a reason, maybe all us little people would have more respect for them. Worrying about re-election, when they all have other marketable skills, over the meaning of the oath they took, leaves us types that are just county delegates to the state conventions shaking our heads. No organized party indeed.

              Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices--François-Marie Arouet

              by CA Berkeley WV on Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 01:28:45 AM PST

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      •  DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. Jesus. (8+ / 0-)

        When are you going to stop trotting out the same bullshit rationalization?

        Voting to acquit in the face of overwhelming evidence would have been a political loser for Republicans.

        Wounded Knee, 1890. Jallianwala Bagh, 1919. Srebrenica, 1995. Gaza, 2008.

        by expatjourno on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 11:54:42 PM PST

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        •  Success Doesn't Matter? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          musing85, swegen

          Oh, the pure virtue of doing something that won't succeed and will almost certainly make things worse is reason to do it?  Even if the results are much worse in the end?

          Well, you know what they say the road to hell is paved with...

          "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

          by Dana Houle on Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 11:56:16 PM PST

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          •  Obviously not. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            expatjourno, tovan, corvo, thethinveil

            Look all around at the "success" of "the agenda"
            Nice thread jack you got going here too after your other night's performance.

            Bone upon South African History since then? LOL.

            Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance
            and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

            by Robert Davies on Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 12:33:21 AM PST

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          •  "ten honorable men" (7+ / 0-)

            an article by jerome zeifman describing the legislators and process involved in the impeaching nixon.  well worth a read and an excellent review of statesmanship vs. politics.  zeifman's description of one of the ten, the kind of democratic leader we have been wishing for the last several years:

            July 10,1974: The Democratic caucus tonight was extraordinary. One of the most moving speeches I have ever heard was made by Jim Mann of South Carolina. He spoke softly with great dignity and morality. He implored the Northern liberals to give him and other Southern Democrats a chance to help them do the right thing for the whole country. He said that the committee was too caught up in details and couldn't see the forest for the trees. He wanted a chance to confer privately with the Republicans and thereby avoid partisanship. In his statement Mann said softly, `With all of the talk here tonight about political problems, let me point out to you that of the 435 congressional districts in the United States, my South Carolina district was No. 1 in support for Nixon in the last election. I have the most heavily concentrated pro-Nixon district of any member of Congress, including the most conservative Republicans. But what I believe is at stake here is' more important than my reelection. What is at stake is our way of life and the very structure of our government....'

            i particularly liked his annecdote about jack brooks who went on to become the democratic chair of the hjc prior to conyers.  proof that at one point in time our legislators thought about more than just being elected.

          •  So, where does it stop; this total disregard... (11+ / 0-)

            of the rule of law by our highest elected officials? What entity reinstates our Constitution? Is the Bill of Rights to be carried out at the whim of a president? Any president? There will always be "political reality" attached to any impeachment. That's the nature of the beast, after all.

            Each time one of these neocon fascist criminals ascend to the White House we lose more and more civil liberties, our environment and standards of living suffer another onslaught of debilitating abuse, and the ruling class assumes a little more power over We the People.

            It's fascism and it's got to end - if not by impeachment (that ship has sailed) then by prosecution. We've already lost so very much of our democracy to greed, apathy and nihilistic delusion.

            How much more can we take?

            If the righteous are indeed allowed to write the history books, the chapters within will not only name the perpetrators of the de-democratization of America; they will also point out their co-conspirators in Congress who allowed it to happen.

            I hope Conyers, Pelosi and every other congress critter who was too worried about the presumed political price to uphold their oaths and do the right thing - indeed the democratic thing - is ready for the infamy they so richly deserve.    

            "If you once forfeit the confidence of your fellow citizens, you can never regain their respect and esteem." -- Abraham Lincoln

            by markthshark on Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 01:04:39 AM PST

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            •  It Stops With the 17 Republicans... (0+ / 0-)

              ...who were never going to materialize to vote to get rid of Bush.  Why that's a tough concept for people to understand is baffling.  

              And you obviously no nothing about fascism.  

              "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

              by Dana Houle on Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 06:45:22 AM PST

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              •  Regarding impeachment, I did say: "(that ship... (0+ / 0-)

                has sailed)." The chance of bringing the Bush/Cheney cabal to justice is exponentially higher in court anyway.

                As to "fascism"... you're welcome to dismiss the many axiomatic parallels between so-called fascism and Bush/Cheney rule all you want, but that sure in hell doesn't mean they don't exist.

                "If you once forfeit the confidence of your fellow citizens, you can never regain their respect and esteem." -- Abraham Lincoln

                by markthshark on Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 08:58:54 PM PST

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      •  Impeachment Without Conviction is Powerful (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rincewind, corvo, Simplify, thethinveil

        Even if an impeachment had failed in the Senate to convict and remove Bush, it would have severely checked Bush's power to continue, and undermine many of his existing crimes. It could have impeded some later crimes, like in setting up TARP and plenty of environmental crimes, plus all the embedded late-term rule changes and the "burrowed" fifth column in the bureaucracy Bush is leaving behind to ensure his "legacy" of mayhem and inaction.

        And it would have established the precedent that the Congress' job is to impeach and try the president, even if the political odds are against it. The next time the odds might not be against it, or the vote to convict could beat the odds. By failing to impeach, the precedent is set that offers the Executive the argument that such a power by Congress doesn't apply in their particular case.

        Elections have consequences. And so does failing to impeach when the evidence is compelling, just like failing to indict just because the odds are against conviction (but failing ensures the perp walks free to crime again). Now we've got those consequences, and we have no security against a partisan executive who doen't always "unequivocally oppose" Unitary Executive power. Which is also true of the president we have now, Obama. Maybe faith is enough. It better be, since we have no security to ensure it.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 01:12:16 AM PST

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