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View Diary: Open Thread for Night Owls, Early Birds & Expats: Green Framing Edition (285 comments)

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  •  And yesterday, and on the Sunday ... (8+ / 0-) shows.

    Americans do not like to think of themselves as aggressors, but raw aggression is what took place in Iraq. - John Prados

    by Meteor Blades on Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 09:30:00 PM PST

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    •  "Climate change is essentially irreversible" (2+ / 0-)

      Dearest Meteor Blades. . .

      The Sunday talk is less significant than what might truly be.  

      Global Warming Is Irreversible, Study Says
      All Things Considered
      January 26, 2009

      Climate change is essentially irreversible, according to a sobering new scientific study.

      As carbon dioxide emissions continue to rise, the world will experience more and more long-term environmental disruption. The damage will persist even when, and if, emissions are brought under control, says study author Susan Solomon, who is among the world's top climate scientists.

      "We're used to thinking about pollution problems as things that we can fix," Solomon says. "Smog, we just cut back and everything will be better later. Or haze, you know, it'll go away pretty quickly."

      That's the case for some of the gases that contribute to climate change, such as methane and nitrous oxide. But as Solomon and colleagues suggest in a new study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, it is not true for the most abundant greenhouse gas: carbon dioxide. Turning off the carbon dioxide emissions won't stop global warming.

      "People have imagined that if we stopped emitting carbon dioxide that the climate would go back to normal in 100 years or 200 years. What we're showing here is that's not right. It's essentially an irreversible change that will last for more than a thousand years," Solomon says.

      I have long said I would wish to live to be one-hundred and fifty years old  I fear I will not survive, nor will human life on Earth.  We have done too much damage.

      I offer a just a few thoughts on the environment.  Please review, reflect, and share and reactions.
      Mother Earth: The Human Virus
      Mother Earth; Story of Stuff or The Seventh Generation
      Clean Coal and the Clause
      Let Them Eat Oil
      Ice Shelf Shifts. Bee Colonies Collapse. Bats Perish. Mother Earth Tortured
      Where Is the Beef? Where Are the Bees? Planet in Peril
      Earthlings; Endangered Species. Wolves; Risk Extinction
      The Price of Paper or Plastic
      My Hair; His Energy Policy

      It is only the giving that makes us what [who] we are. - Ian Anderson. Betsy L. Angert

      by Bcgntn on Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 10:01:52 PM PST

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      •  "Global Warming Is Irreversible"? Come on... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        alizard, bushondrugs, polar bear

        This is a terribly misleading title.

        Even as the article itself states, Global Warming will continue even after anthropocentric CO2 sources injected into the atmosphere were to cease--but not forever.

        The estimate of "thousands of years" would be disputed by climate scientists--it almost certainly is decades, even under the best situation, and likely several hundred years.

        While this several generations, it's not forever, and therefore climate change is not irreversible.

        I understand the thought expressed in the article:

        People have imagined that if we stopped emitting carbon dioxide that the climate would go back to normal in 100 years or 200 years.

        captures an important concept missed by most people--we can't, like turning off a light, go back to the darkness right away--but it also induces "end of the world" reactions, which are likely to work against any real efforts to stop and then reverse GW.  Why bother if it's inevitable?

        The real course of action:  reduce greenhouse gas emissions on a drastically short timeframe, implement alternative, non-CO2 emitting technologies, and undertake research in carbon-sequestration technologies for rollout as quickly as possible.

        All in conjunction with preparing for the inevitable effects of GW in our lifetime and that of several generations of our descendants.

        "Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet, you can't win." Lazurus Long

        by rfall on Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 10:17:31 PM PST

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        •  "Essentially irreversible" (4+ / 0-)

          I believe is the operative phrase; frankly, if we keep mucking up the atmosphere like we're doing, we won't have 1000+ years to wait for the Earth to right itself.

          There are people who say, "If music's that easy to write, I could do it." Of course they could, but they don't. - John Cage

          by RoscoeOfAlabama on Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 11:27:17 PM PST

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          •  Good point--they did use a qualifier (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            RoscoeOfAlabama, polar bear

   the body of the report, but not the title.

            Which, since I missed that fact, perversely bolsters my point that it's not "irreversible", but "essentially irreversible", but many people will take the shorter version from the title and run with it.


            "Certainly the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you; if you don't bet, you can't win." Lazurus Long

            by rfall on Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 11:52:28 PM PST

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          •  also, the "fragile" areas will be the first hit (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Bcgntn, RoscoeOfAlabama, bushondrugs

            hardest. If the future of the species depends upon arable land that supply is already becoming scarce as developed countries pave over acres of arable land while other, more fragile areas lose such land to forces such as desertification and salination along with aquifer depletion.

            Climate change is just one part of the whole complex of complicated interactions within the environment, so while climate change taken alone, will not lead to disaster in the short term, coupled with other problems, will also not make it a longterm problem.

            Just as a justfer for neocons: the average tomato in your grocery in December has traveled 1600 miles. Now how much resources were required to enable you to enjoy sliced tomatoes instead of canned tomatoes or tomato juice?

            Some recidivism to practices of former days is an absolute necessity.  

      •  TocqueDeville had a Diary on ... (11+ / 0-)

        ...this subject Time to Tell the Truth About Global Warming in November 2007. An excerpt:

        What this means is, if humans stopped the engine of the entire world today, shut down every coal fired power plant from here to China, turned off every single automobile, stopped burning any carbon based substances from natural gas to firewood, and miraculously reduced global greenhouse emissions to exactly zero, we could not stop what is happening, and about to happen to our planet.

        And because we have entered what I call runaway climate change, with numerous feedback loops kicking in, even if we stopped the engine of the world, not only will global warming continue, but it will continue to get worse.

        The global warming we're seeing now is not the result of decades of CO2 emissions. It is the accumulative result of centuries of emissions. All that CO2 that went up George Washington's chimney, and all that CO2 that came out of Henry Ford's Model-T is still up there, suffocating our planet. And all the CO2 that we have been emitting over the last 50 years, billions of tons, will still be suffocating our planet in the year 2200. Some of it will even be around in the year 202,000 A.D.

        We have permanently altered our atmosphere, and our climate.

        But then, in April, he wrote another, We're All Going To Die. An excerpt:

        This is incredibly important because it means that the only way we can really avoid the climate catastrophe is to not only cut emissions, but to remove the CO2 we've already put into the atmosphere.

        The reason I was so excited is because I now believe that that technology is both available, and feasible to actually do just that - remove the billions of tons of CO2 that is threatening our very survival. The reason why we're all going to die is because the people who run the world, and most importantly, our primary form of communication, television, are too stupid, greedy and corrupt to allow it to happen. ...

        After watching yet another American election packed into banality by the corporate media, I am convinced more than ever that if we don't retake the national conversation, through the democratic instruments of power, namely our government and the FCC, our nation and our world will see only darkness to come. We will never solve the problems we face. And we, or our children, may very well perish for it.

        Americans do not like to think of themselves as aggressors, but raw aggression is what took place in Iraq. - John Prados

        by Meteor Blades on Tue Jan 27, 2009 at 10:25:02 PM PST

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    •  Please send a message. energy companies lobby (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Meteor Blades

      Dearest Meteor Blades. . .

      In the spirit of this discussion, I wish to share a letter I received.  Please consider what we have done, could do, will do.  Please act if you choose in the manner that feels best to you.

      Betsy L.,
      American homes lose $13 billion in wasted energy every year, averaging a whopping $150 per family. What's more, the average family spends about $1,900 per year on utility bills.

      In these economic times, it's hard to fork out that kind of money.

      What's even more outrageous is that energy companies are currently lobbying Congress for more handouts and more "pork," while everyday citizens are feeling the stranglehold of energy costs.

      There is a solution - but we need to act fast.


Congress is considering setting aside more than $10 billion ($6 billion in grants, $4 billion in tax credits) for homeowners to weatherize their homes as part of the Obama administration's economic stimulus package. The "green energy stimulus" also would include measures to promote renewable energy and a public works project to make public buildings more energy-efficient.

      Betsy L., this solution can directly benefit you and so many other Americans!

      For example, improving energy efficiency in heating and cooling can save the average household more than $500 a year in utility costs. Weatherizing a home typically costs $50 per household but can save families up to two or three times that in just one winter.

      Imagine how those savings could help with other day-to-day expenses.


I strongly urge you to act today and urge lawmakers to include energy-efficiency initiatives for you and other homeowners in the stimulus package. Tell them to resist pleas for "pork" from the nuclear and oil industries, which have gotten plenty over the past few years - at your expense.

      We need to act quickly and forcefully. Congress and the Obama administration plan to move swiftly to pass this legislation, and the energy package will face opposition along the way. Lawmakers are being swamped by lobbyists for energy companies looking for handouts that will benefit them, not you.

      Please, make your voice heard loud and clear. Tell the government to help households cut energy costs, reduce our country's dependence on oil and invest in green infrastructure today.

      Thank you for all you do,

      Tyson Slocum

      Director, Public Citizen's Energy Program

      It is only the giving that makes us what [who] we are. - Ian Anderson. Betsy L. Angert

      by Bcgntn on Wed Jan 28, 2009 at 08:54:07 AM PST

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