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View Diary: Here's to hope (191 comments)

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  •  While I like Obama (2.33)
    This annointing of him before he has any record of achievement is really disturbing.

    Dems need to get over this messiah complex we have.  The future of the party is in our hands, not some savior.

    Besides.  Our Edwards messiah complex didn't work out to well.  The odd thing about messiahs is they usually let you down.

    Terry McAuliffe is a loser and a swine.

    by Rally Burger on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 11:15:06 AM PST

    •  I think this is absolutely right (none)
      The strength is as great as the strength inside yourself. But allow others to help you express your determination as well.
    •  Edwards didn't let us down (none)
      We haven't seen the last of John and Elizabeth. They are a worthy first family.

      Obama does deserve a chance to succeed in this awful senate without the added pressure of being the future of the party. But he's a lovely speaker.

      •  Sorry, you still don't get it (none)
        America does not elect legislators to the highest executive office in the land (3 exceptions in 228 years [58 elections]).

        We will not see a President John Edwards. Nor a President Hillary Clinton. Nor a President Barak Obama.

        If the Dems learn nothing else from this election, please learn that.

        If you want to win an executive position, run an executive candidate.

        •  Gee, you're right! (none)
          Somebody get five-term Governor Howard Dean warming up in the bullpen... we need this out!
        •  I do "get" it--but I disagree with you (none)
          This country needs "executives" like Cheney and Rumsfeld like we need another 10,000 holes in our heads.

          We do need candidates with vision and idealism, not just able compromisers.

        •  more than three (none)
          A quick look at the 2000 NY TIMES Almanac revealed that these presidents were once US Senators:
          Richard Nixon
          Lyndon Johnson
          John F. Kennedy
          Harry Truman
          Benjamin Harrison
          Andrew Johnson
          John Tyler
          William Henry Harrison
          Martin Van Buren
          Andrew Jackson
          John Quincy Adams
          James Monroe

          These presidents made it to the House:
          Gerald Ford
          William McKinley
          James A. Garfield
          Abraham Lincoln**
          Frankin Pierce
          James K. Polk
          Millard Fillmore
          James Madison

          John Q. Adams was elected to the House after his term as president.

          ** Like Barack Obama, a member of the Illinois legislature.

          * "I still believe in a place called Hope." --Bill Clinton

          by diversecity215 on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 06:46:51 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  I like him too, (none)
      and he speaks thing we need to hear, and in addition he needs a Senate record that shows leadership and independence, which is mighty hard to accomplish in three years.
    •  Edwards (none)
      What a non-entity he turned out to be.  It was as if Kerry was running without a running mate.

      You're right, it's a good cautionary example to test the waters before jumping into a pool that turns out to be, well, shallow.

      •   wow are YOU stupid (none)
          let me see if  I have this right....   Kerry another Northeast  Liberal  from Mass and the dems  get killed on  social issues and get blown out  by  rural votes...

         and  the  only guy  who  connects to those   folks in anyway  -- Edwards--  is at Fault?

        "Obviously we are dealing with limited mentalities" -- Daffy Duck

        by wxdave on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 01:23:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Which election were you watching (none)
          Don't you have to be visible and seen by those voters to connect to them?

          Is it enough if you're less than half as visible as your frail, 65-year old GOP counterpart who has had multiple heart surgeries?

          Do you "connect" with rural voters simply by having your press aides repeatedly remind the media that your father was a millworker?

          Oh, BTW, thanks for helping us carry Ohio, Mr. Edwards, and we couldn't have won North Carolina without you.  Now that's the power of "connecting"!

      •  and whose fault was that? (none)
        Edwards was working his butt off flying around the country and giving speeches every day. Good speeches. Is it his fault that the media decides that it's more important to interview Mark Geragos for the 79th time about Scott Peterson than to devote an extra 2 goddam minutes to political coverage?

        He was only a non-entity because the way we approach politics (I'm not just blaming the media) made him a non-entity. Until enough people stand up and say "Fuck this, I don't need to hear anymore about some husband that might have killed his wife, and I don't need to hear about Michael Jackson, and I don't need to hear about Ashlee Simson," then we're stuck with this kind of thing.

        Edwards could have given four speeches in four states on one day, could have talked passionately about the issues facing this country, but if he made one verbal gaffe or miscue at the fourth speech, guess what the entire media coverage of his day would be? Yep--that verbal gaffe.

        As it is, the major networks devote about five minutes to the presidential race, and half of that is polls. The other half is split about 45%-45% between the POTUS candidates, and then the VEEPS maybe get 5% each. And that amounts to about 5 seconds.

        I know what you mean that he wasn't very visible, but that's a system-wide fault, not his. I don't think any other VP candidate would have done better. The system insists that the VP (of the challenging party, especially) be relegated to the "And in other news..." section of the broadcast, and until that changes, the non-entity part won't either.

        •  I heartily agree (none)
          The campaign coverage of Edwards was mostly about his hair. If anyone in the mainstream had paid attention to the issues, we would have won.

          JRE probably won us the votes to carry the midwestern states. Elizabeth gave excellent town halls--was lucky enough to catch one in Carson City.

    •  it's unfortunate (3.50)
      that Obama is standing out so singularly.  If the DNC, etc., had been doing their jobs, he would have been but one of many whom the Dems were cultivating.  This is by no means meant to criticize him, but rather the Party, for giving us so few identifiable leaders.
      •  The DNC didn't even find Obama (none)
        He was an unlikely prospect for the nomination before Dean found him and DFA funded him and then the leading Dem self-destructed.  We should be able to find talent like Barack Obama, but our system is broken.  Everybody thinks if they put in their time and act like a good team player, they should get whatever nomination they're after when "their turn" arrives.  That's garbage!  If you aren't a good candidate, keep walking.  It will never be your turn.
        •  I think (none)
          after two national elections where a fundamentally bad candidate like George W. Bush can become POTUS, discussion of the qualilty of the candidates as a criteria should be put to rest forever.

          W. is the poster child of a "bad" candidate, and yet he was able to steal one election and win another.  The term is now meaningless.

          In a democratic society some are guilty, but all are responsible. -Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

          by a gilas girl on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 11:59:59 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Uh, make that two stolens. (none)
            I will never be convinced that George W. Bush won an election to President in my lifetime, INCLUDING this one.

            It's too much of a coincidence that two states with Diebolds, voter harassment on a large scale, and two Nazis as Secretaries of State put him over the top.

            Paging Howard Dean, and he better get here before we take to the streets.

      •  Tim Ryan! (none)
        If you haven't seen his phenomenal speech on the House floor, you simply must drop everything NOW and go find it... anyone have the link?
    •  Quit hitting Edwards (2.66)
      Nobody to blame here but the voters.  John Edwards worked his ass off, and inspired millions of people.  So did John Kerry.

      But they whipped us in GOTV.  Pure and simple.

      Until we get it through our thick heads that the majority of Americans thinks our party is for immorality, we are never going to win.  The only two candidates willing to argue for Democratic Principles in the language of morality were John Edwards and, following Edwards's lead, Obama.

      "We're makin' progress. It's hard work. We're workin' hard on freedom. And liberty. Hard work. ... Hard work. . . . um . . . is the light on yet?"

      by DrFrankLives on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 11:46:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  no record (none)
      state Senator in IL since 1997 is no record.

      Legislative Record

      working against the Death penatly, for defendents' rights, child care, increasing the minimum wage ...

      no record ...

      Who do you suggest articulate our message?

      "Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies." - Friedrich Nietzsche.

      by Madman in the marketplace on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 11:52:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  and the rights messiah will let them down (none)
      Bush is seen as the rights messiah but he doesn't have what it takes and I'll bet he falls and when he does the right wing goes with him.
    •  asdf (none)
      THANK YOU. Because it's not real. How about Illinois re-elect him in 6 years? The last Black Senator they had didn't make it. Oh, wait. You want him to not get re-elected, then run for POTUS like Mosely-Braun did? Ahhhhhhhh.

      I don' get it.

      And I'll personally vote for a white man who agrees with my views and supports my issues over an Asian lesbian who can't hold up in the long run. It's about issues. Plus, no way in hell is America going to nominate a minority for POTUS.

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