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View Diary: Stand and Fight (348 comments)

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  •  Ambivalent (4.00)
    I am at this moment, and about this article.  Just as I am about those on the progressive left who want to say it was Kerry's fault fot voting for the authorization, the DNC's fault for not allowing Dean to win, or the Kossacks who want to immediately start debating who should be the 2006 or the 2008 candidates.

    One thing I do agree with and one observation/reaction.

    Resistance.  Here I do agree with vanden heuvel (something I rarely do) and with MB.  A huge part of the work is going to be to resist the most heinous stuff and to be an opposition.  But we have to remember that being the opposition doesn't just mean "throwing back at them what they throw at us".  Nor does it necessarily mean, playing hardball their way.  That's not always possible, not always smart and its not always what opposition is or must do. I do think we need some basic thinking and discussion about what opposition and resistance has to look like in the contemporary political context.

    For those who would say "no resistance, let the bastards have what they voted for", again ambivalence: to the degree that they (or even we) are the ones who pay the price, then sure.  As a the resistance, and as the opposition we have to make choices anyway what to fight because we can't fight everything either logistically or emotionally.  That leads to burn out.  But in the instances where we can fight for those who can't (i.e. the real victims abroad) then I think we have to resist. Its a case-by-case thing not a global strategy.

    The ProgressiveDemocrat split.  Here's my observation.  I'm not sure we're all the same people anymore.  And I'm not sure we're all talking to the same people anymore.  I'm certain that the audience vande heuvel is addressing is not all Kossacks (of course there's some overlap).  And just in reading the diary titles, some diaries, and some threads I'm certain that the "we" of the Kossacks are not all Kossacks anymore.  During the presidential election, Pprogressives, progressive-democrats and liberals and Democrats were more or less the same group as we fought to elect John Kerry and not George W. Bush.  We knew that after the election (just as early in the primaries and before the campaign) we were not a monolith, but different groups with different kinds of goals that often overlapped. Well, its pretty clear that its after the election.  

     

    In a democratic society some are guilty, but all are responsible. -Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

    by a gilas girl on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 03:33:06 PM PST

    •  I Hope You're Wrong (none)
      and feel someone of my views is alluded to in some way.  Sure we disagree, even on some fundamental issues.  But don't you feel our fundamental agreements, especially as compared to the fundamental disagreements we have with the ruling party require the coalition to continue to work together?  We can fight and scream for our issues, ut we can't leave the table. We must not leave the table.  It would be a betrayal of our values to leave the table.

      It's time to reject a President that says to the American people 'Ignore my record, forget my failures and fear the future.' - Kerry Campaign

      by Armando on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 09:17:31 PM PST

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      •  I"ve never been AT the table (none)
        I'm not a Dem; my attention is directed toward social movement politics not electoral ones.  So I wait to see that state of things once Bush settles in for term 2 and see where my energy is needed and which issues those that I work with/admire/respect are turning.

        For me, per usual, its the Israeli Occupation and the conflict with the Palestinians (which was mostly a wash between Bush and Kerry).  The Democratic Party has never been an ally in this work.  With Arafat dying (or so it seems) all hell could break loose.  

        In a democratic society some are guilty, but all are responsible. -Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

        by a gilas girl on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 01:48:18 PM PST

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        •  addendum (none)
          I think what I meant to say and just totally f***ed up by vomiting up excess verbiage, is that electoral politics has never been where I've invested my political energies and heart - movement poliics is.  And so, by the very nature of what those "projects" are, the overlap will be small, if it exists at all.  The discussions here at dKos reflect that: there are plenty of issues that need opposition once Bush gets in full swing, and any number of problems in the world did not go away just because the US was engaged in a presidential campaign, yet people here are already talking about 2006 or 2008. I'm confident there's going to be plenty to do as soon as December 2004 and certainly in 2005.  There's going to be a shitload of politics going on again very soon and being the opposition is going to be more important than ever.  But the focus here is on electoral politics.  On my other email lists and bulletin boards (the ones with the progressives) they are abuzz with issues, action alerts discussion of where to direct our energy, NOT in 2006 but next week.  

          Its a fundamentally different way to see politics, and I'm just reading through it and noting it, sometimes a little pleased with myself for recognizing the difference.  IMHO that's what has always been wrong with the Democratic Party, they don't understand that even when you don't win the election, the politics continue, but they turn their attention to the next election.  If they invested some energy and resources in taking up the responsibilities they have to the 49% that voted for them and actually "did their duty" as the opposition party, they might have an easier time winning elections.

          Very shortly there will be Bush Admin actions that need opposing, but I won't really look here to find out info or strategies for that kind of resistance and opposition.  That info will be with the progressives working on social and issues politics not electoral stuff. Not a dig or a swipe at anyone, just a recognition.  This is a blog dedicated to elections. And to Democratic Party politics.  That's not my agenda, I'm interested in progressive social change, which isn't the focus around here.

          In a democratic society some are guilty, but all are responsible. -Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

          by a gilas girl on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 02:10:30 PM PST

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          •  Movement politics (none)
            Actually you jogged my memory - we discussed this one before.

            It's time to reject a President that says to the American people 'Ignore my record, forget my failures and fear the future.' - Kerry Campaign

            by Armando on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 04:48:35 PM PST

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