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View Diary: Obama-Cynic Reality Check (26 comments)

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  •  The problem... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Steve Love, nippersdad

    ...most of us assumed that Obama would have the basic understanding that any promise of "reaching out/changing tone/bipartisanship" is not something to take seriously and something that no thinking person will vote on.  This is because you can not govern effectively using it (just like we now have a stimulus choc full of useless tax cuts with necessary infrastructure and transport spending slashed to accomodate this) because the other side has every reason to roll you on it and no reason to cooperate (which is what's happened so far).  Now, Obama is finally starting to show some spine, hopefully not too late, and he's pretty much tossing this bipartisan bullshit out on its ass which is really good because it never shouldn've been in the tent to begin with.

    "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

    by Mister Gloom on Thu Feb 05, 2009 at 10:35:51 AM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  so your probelm is you didn't take him seriously (8+ / 0-)

      well that sounds like an error on your part not his.

      •  Not really... (0+ / 0-)

        when something never works as anything other than a campaign slogan, and you know the person has some intelligence you should be able to assume that the person has the good sense to never govern this way since it is doomed, doomed, doomed, to failure.  I thought Obama was smart enough to avoid that trap, hopefully he didn't cripple his presidency by stumbling out of the gate even worse than Clinton did.

        "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

        by Mister Gloom on Thu Feb 05, 2009 at 10:48:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  again I fail to see how this is Obama's probelm (6+ / 0-)

          and not yours.

          Obama made a promise, hell many people voted for him (to varying extents) on that promise.

          You want to be cynical about bipartisanship and about moving on from the fucked up Bush years, that's your choice.

          But to start complaining becuase Obama is honoring one of his promises is just stupid.

          The only trap I see is the one the GOP is racing head long into.

          Frankly I'm getting tempted to bring out the chill out pic but I'm trying to be serious here and I don't want you to think I'm dismissing you.

          Let's face it Obama is a better politican, a smarter politican then 90+% of anyone here or probably anyone in the USA.

          He not only beat Clinton but he beat McCain and he did it even as he held himself to the same standards you want him to abandon now.

          •  nope (0+ / 0-)

            >>Obama made a promise, hell many people voted for him (to varying extents) on that promise.<<</p>

            Anyone who voted for him for this reason is a moron who shouldn't be taken seriously.

            >>You want to be cynical about bipartisanship and about moving on from the fucked up Bush years, that's your choice.<<</p>

            Nope I'm realistic based on an understanding of the history of politics.  That way is DOOMED to failure, always has been and always will be.

            >>He not only beat Clinton but he beat McCain and he did it even as he held himself to the same standards you want him to abandon now.<<</p>

            He beat Clinton because the primary voters thought Hillary would cave to the R's like Bill did (namely, on everything important), we thought he'd actually have values and fight for them.  Obama beat McCain because the Republican party was imploding due to massive economic and ethical failures.  McCain could have no more beaten any Democrat (at least one who wasn't dogged by massive scandals) than Goldwater could have beaten LBJ in '64.  

            "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

            by Mister Gloom on Thu Feb 05, 2009 at 11:00:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  okay stop with the circles (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MrvnMouse

              Anyone who voted for him for this reason is a moron who shouldn't be taken seriously.

              That's your opnion but the only moron I see here is someone who didn't take Obama's promises seriously.

              Nope I'm realistic based on an understanding of the history of politics.  That way is DOOMED to failure, always has been and always will be.

              I'm going to enjoy watching you eat these words.

              He beat Clinton because the primary voters thought Hillary would cave to the R's like Bill did (namely, on everything important), we thought he'd actually have values and fight for them.  Obama beat McCain because the Republican party was imploding due to massive economic and ethical failures.  McCain could have no more beaten any Democrat (at least one who wasn't dogged by massive scandals) than Goldwater could have beaten LBJ in '64.  

              Ah revisonist history, it's a fun distraction but unhelpful and makes you look bad.

              •  Again nope... (0+ / 0-)

                >>    Nope I'm realistic based on an understanding of the history of politics.  That way is DOOMED to failure, always has been and always will be.

                I'm going to enjoy watching you eat these words.<<</p>

                Take a look, Obama's already backing down from talk of bipartisanship and finally playing hardball.  So it looks like its Obama who's eating those words.

                >>Ah revisonist history, it's a fun distraction but unhelpful and makes you look bad.<<</p>

                If you'd look at my comments and god knows how many Clinton diaries that were going on at the time you'd see that I was right.  That isn't revisionist history "That's the facts jack" (with all due thanks to Bill Murray for Stripes).  Most of here were bitching non-stop about Clinton not because of the "old tone' but because the expectation was that she'd cave to the R's, badly.  And since kos is pretty representative of the base that tends to vote in primaries (we're not analagous to the general election crowd, but we're pretty representative of primary voters), I think its fair to make that comparison.

                McCain was dead as soon as the economy exploded, and he wasn't in a great place to begin with.  

                "An army of principles can penetrate where an army of soldiers cannot." - Thomas Paine

                by Mister Gloom on Thu Feb 05, 2009 at 11:35:51 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  actually (0+ / 0-)

                  Obama is just threatening to bypass the GOP and go straight to the people. I guess you could technically call that hardball but it's not the hard ball you were implying earlier.

                  Oh and you I think need a reality check, that may or may not been what was going on here but outside of DK Clinton looked enveitable up till Jan 07 and it was only then that Obama looked serious.

                  The world is not dk and dk is not the world.

                  This is my last response, you don't like what's being done, fine but it's exactly what Obama said he would do.

            •  Primary voters didn't vote against Clinton (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MrvnMouse, drache

              because she was perceived to be too likely to cave to thee Republicans.  Rather they did not want another scorched-earth politician who the GOP would attack on a personal level constantly.  Actually they did prefer Obama's partisanship.  If he gets a stimulus bill to pass soon, it will be a record for passage of a bill at the beginning of a Presidency and will be one of the biggest bills ever to be legislated in actual dollar terms.

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