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View Diary: Khatami is In--This is a Clear Signal (309 comments)

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  •  Bush is not responsible for all evils (1+ / 0-)
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    in the world.

    The responsibility is with the Iranian mullahs. Iran is a theocratic state with limited human rights. We go apoplectic when a government in the US does 1/1000 what Iran does in terms of forcing religious tyranny down its citizens' throats. Should we not react the same way to totalitarian actions in Iran?

    Or are Iranians less important than Americans?

    •  Get a grip (6+ / 0-)

      When I said Bush, I clearly ought to have said "paranoid and arrogant American foreign policy which saw its clearest expression under the Bush Administration these last 8 years". I was saving myself the trouble of writing all that, and hoping that readers such as yourself would assume that I did NOT mean Bush was personally and solely responsible for these policies. Particularly those in place since "the killing of Mossadegh", which took place when Bush was around 5 years old.

      As for totalitarian regimes, it rather undercuts your argument that the US is not to blame, when the regime in question came to power as a result of the assassination of the democratically-elected Mossadegh, at least indirectly, by agents of the US, and when the said totalitarian regime was a reaction to the abuses of the Shah, supported by the US for 25 years.

      But by all means we should continue to demand that all countries preserve human rights. That's so much harder when we don't do it ourselves, and regardless of the relative freedoms enjoyed in Iran and here, I can't see how torture, detention without charge and so on are actually "better" in any sense of the word, other than by volume. And is that really how you want us to be compared?

      "Are Iranians less important than Americans?" Uh, no. That was part of my point in calling out the American policies which made life more difficult for Iranians. Or was it Ahmadinejad himself who called Iran part of the "axis of evil"?

      Focus on what matters.

      by thingamabob on Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 09:51:38 PM PST

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      •  correction for you (1+ / 0-)
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        Mossadegh was indeed removed from power, but he died over 13 years later from natural causes.

        And please note that I have never supported either torture or detention without charge. But that has nothing to do with the denial of human rights by the Iranian regime, nor its support of Hezbollah and Hamas, which are arguably even worse than the Iranian regime itself.

        •  Many in the Middle East (4+ / 0-)

          See support of Hamas and Hezbollah as no different than support of Israel, since Israel causes considerable more killing and injury in the name of defense. I'm not denying Israel's right to retaliate, only to say that at this point, only a demagogue picks and chooses what actions are supportable and what not.

          Sure, Hamas has to drop the notion that Israel be erased from the map. But there are many Israelis who need to drop the notion that the same be done to all Arabs, or more specifically Hamas. But, worst of all, you continue to advance arguments that are not relevant to my point.

          Focus on what matters.

          by thingamabob on Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 10:01:47 PM PST

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          •  Also we should drop the "erase from the map" meme (3+ / 0-)
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            thingamabob, KenBee, FrankCornish

            because the whole thing was based on a malicious mistranslation of a quote from Khomeini suggesting that Israel was facing imminent collapse (not invasion by tank collumns). I'm not aware that Hamas has said anything like it. I'm sure charliehall can find something equally nasty from his vast web resources of Bad Things About Palestinians Everybody Should Know, but there won't be any wiping off of maps.

          •  It's probably closer (0+ / 0-)

            to the support of some Americans for the IRA back in the day.

            "What if everybody thought like you?" "Then I'd be a damn fool to think otherwise."-- Catch 22

            by Johnny Q on Mon Feb 09, 2009 at 11:47:09 AM PST

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