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View Diary: Why Democrats should not abandon gay rights (163 comments)

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  •  if we abandon gay rights (4.00)
    I'm leaving the Party.

    It's a matter of principle -- a party with no principles deserves no votes.

    "I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" - Patrick Henry

    by alxt on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 09:15:53 PM PST

    •  My lord (none)
      Are they even considering this?

      I've been avoiding mainstream media all day because I can't stand the sight nor sound of Bush. Just work, then Air America and The Sims 2.  :)

      Tell me this isn't seriously being discussed.

      •  Seconded (none)
        Is there serious talk about this?  I hadn't heard it, but I've avoided television today.  Is it just some rumbling here on Daily Kos or is there serious discussion of this?

        My hope at this point is to fight harder and work to get a true message into the Democratic party.  But we absolutely cannot abandon gay rights and I never will, period.  It was shown yesterday that, for now, hatred and bigotry wins in America.  But that is not the future and that is not the future of the Democratic party.

        If the party abandons gays now, then it is heartless.  It is soulless.

        And James is right.  It can only hurt us.  We will never outdo the Republicans on social conservatism and to even attempt it would be a descent into moral oblivion.

        At this point, on this day, if there is one comforting thought for those of us who cling to the hopes of the Democratic party, it is that we are morally right.  It is that we are those who fight for the rights of all people rather than kicking and abusing them.

        We are the good guys.  If we abandon gays now, then we are morally bankrupt.  We will be what we despise.

        - Joel Caris
        Nightmares For Sale - Common Sense Dissent

        by aimlessmind on Wed Nov 03, 2004 at 11:40:23 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Agreed. (none)
      You either back up what you believe with what you do, or your words are empty.
    •  I will too (none)
      and I know plenty of others who will.  If the Democratic party decides to have no spine why bother to exist.  It will be time for a new 3rd party.
      •  so gay marriage (none)
        is more important than health care, jobs, the environment, global peace and free speach?

        I don't believe you guys.. you are like Nader supporters: "give me everything or I will accept nothing"

        Gay marriage is a dead end. It will destroy whatever chances we have of improving America. It's illegal even in the liberal bastions of France and Sweden... just realize that gay marriage is not for America, not now. There was no biblical support for racism, there is quite a lot of support for being against gay marriage. And 80% of our people are Christians (also: most non-Christians seems to be against gay marriage)

        I'm not scapegoating gays. It's not their fault that America is like it is. But I hope they can give up marriage rights for now. Let's wait until people get used to seeing gay couples around them. 20 years?

        Many people, hetero- and homosexual alike, are just fine living together without being married.


        "there's a conspiracy out there - open and admitted - that's trying to convince you that you'll be happier if you buy various products"

        by Joe B on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:59:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  This isn't just about marriage (none)
          It's about limited benefits. Hospital visitation rights and wills. The GOP said they were going after this stuff, they said this long before same-sex marriage was legalized.

          It's really baffling that you claim abortion doesn't hurt Democrats but gay rights do. You apparently don't spend a lot of time near fundies.

          How nice that you attack anyone who supports gays as being like Nader.

        •  Legal in some other countries (none)
          It's legal in Belgium, about to become so in Spain and been legal in Iceland for years and civil union laws not far short of marriage have been passed in a number of countries including France and Sweden - the one in Germany generally being called "Homo Ehe" (Gay Marriage).  The German Conservatives tried to use it as an election issue in 2002 and it backfired completely, convincing moderate voters in Northern and Western Germany that Stoiber was a loony redneck.  The main opposition parties in Ireland support civil union provisions.  This is increasingly a non-issue in Europe.

          I expect we'll have civil unions in Britain within 3 years and same sex marriage within 10.  Middle England finds out that once these things happen they're not such a big deal after all, just as middle Germany, Belgium and Spain did before.

          Of course, radical Evangelical Protestantism isn't really a force here, and doctrinaire Catholicism is more likely to push people into our camp, given the low levels of trust in the Catholic Church.  Have patience, fight the battle inch by inch and we'll win.  That's the way we've won every battle in the movement for gay liberation.

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