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View Diary: So Why Not Let the Economy Completely Collapse? (76 comments)

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  •  um, because millions would starve? (7+ / 0-)

    Is that not enough of a reason to try to fix things?

    "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

    by limpidglass on Tue Feb 10, 2009 at 12:19:06 AM PST

    •  yeah that argument worked just fine (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      k9disc

      for the third world. are you saying that there is no starvation in the world (and we dont fix it we profit from it , thru dirt cheap labor just as one example)or are you saying as long as americans are not starving, who cares.
      i dont get your comment

      •  NO how long do you think it would take (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gerald 1969, Nebraskablue

        for the 3rd world to get their crop production up?  Especially w/ Zimbabwe still messed up?  Seriously, if we go off line, ppl starve immediately (for at least 2 years) thats bc we export grain all over.  Yes I know we food dump, but bc we food dump, a lot of land isn't even in production, so it takes time.  Not to mention the lack of fertilizer they would have.

        GOP = Godless opposition party We Hassle to make America a Vassal (state)

        by Shhs on Tue Feb 10, 2009 at 01:05:10 AM PST

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        •  yes and who changed their way of farming (0+ / 0-)

          selling them fertilizer and what not. you know in the past you could have used some of your crop as seed for the next year.and go ask the IMF who adviced most of the poor countrys to open markets(globalisation you know ) for cheap oversubsidezed US grain so the local farmer werent able to compete and lost their land.

          •  too simplistic by far (4+ / 0-)

            but we all seem in a ranting mood at the moment...

            If you really don't think that fertilizers have increased agricultural productivity in places where it was sorely needed, I'd advise you to read more.  New varieties of grains are some of the best contributions the international community has made - not just Borlaug's wheat, but all kinds of ways to increase yields, resist disease, have crops survive better in harsh conditions.  The notion they'd be better off with no fertilizers is just crazy.  In the Horn of Africa, the countries were panicking not long ago, wondering where to get enough foreign exchange to import enough fertilizer to keep yields high enough next year so we didn't have more people dying, literally, of starvation.

            There are all kinds of problems in the developing world, and while it's ever so nice to blame them all on us evil aid types trying to colonize the place thru starving them to death, I think some of us are reasonably intelligent about what works and what doesn't, and reasonably decent people who try our best to help, and get to look right in the faces of those starving kids you're so worried about, and then go home and cry.

            sigh.  rant over.  A return to traditional farming practices in no way would mean a reduction in poverty worldwide.  And a drop in demand from the richer countries in the world - including the US - is right now the worst nightmare of a lot of these economies.  If they want to buy medicines from abroad they need foreign exchange.  They have to sell stuff to afford medicines, and computers, and roads, and well, lots of things.  That may be inconvenient, but there you have it...  Would you suggest countries in the South not import anything?  What shall we suggest they're not entitled to have in our drive to be sure they're economically independent from us in the North?

            When I lived in Nepal there were these wonderful environmentalist/tourist groups who bemoaned the building of a road up in the Mustang district in the Himalaya.  Said it would spoil the natural landscape and was a crime, and that all aid groups involved were criminals.  I thought someone should ask them if they were willing to go live in a place without a single road, so that no food could come in or out, there was no market for their produce, where all kinds of people died because they couldn't reach a healthpost in time, where no teachers would agree to teach in the government schools because of all the above.

            We really need to be more thoughtful instead of going for the quick and easy blame of our favorite boogeymen.  Some of these questions - including the economic recovery bill, or the bank bailout - are just hard and complicated.  I don't think we make it likely anyone will take us seriously or that we can push for a better outcome, if we sound like we're off the wall.

            (Sadly, in Kathmandu no longer.)

            by American in Kathmandu on Tue Feb 10, 2009 at 05:51:57 AM PST

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      •  You're being insane (2+ / 0-)

        There's much less starvation than there was in times past. There are far fewer conflicts than in times past. If you seriously think that we've made no progress over the past 100 years and want to go back to a pre-Depression/WWII mindset then you should join your ideological allies the Republicans.

        Give me liberty, or give me death!

        by salsa0000 on Tue Feb 10, 2009 at 04:52:10 AM PST

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        •  luky me that i live in a country with (0+ / 0-)

          healthcare and 30 day payed holiday my so called repub allies would not put a foot in here because europe beeing too socialistic.form sahel to zimbabwe you wont find MCdonalds.but never mind atleast
          you know how the kucky crummbels.and
          for somebody living in a land where the most know S** about the rest of the world (maybe because of really bad MSN maybe it is a lack of intrest)
          you are very fast with your judgement.
          but as i said never mind i watch it from the sideline at safe distance

    •  at first glance: "millionaires would starve" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gerald 1969

      I must be getting tired!

      I really thought that's what it said for a split second.

      Millionaires would starve!  Oh the humanity!

      William Casey "We will know that we have succeeded when everything the public believes is false"

      by Inky99 on Tue Feb 10, 2009 at 01:18:51 AM PST

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