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View Diary: DIEBOLD - audit logs - useless! (204 comments)

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  •  Let's take Duval County, for example (4.00)
    New York Times reported that new registrations by black voters were up 150% in Duval.  Black voters whose votes weren't counted in 2000 because of confusing ballots.

    Yet somehow, Bush votes in Duval increased 56% over 2000 while Gore/Kerry votes declined 10% from 2000.

    This defies logic and should be a wake-up call to journalists.  I would love to get the exact increase in Democratic registration from 2000 to 2004.  

    •  FYI (none)
      The percent chnages listed in the file linked to here  are realtive to "expected democratic votes" defined as registered democrats adjusted for turnout.   They are not chamges relative to Gore's numbers.

      The numbers in Duval may be well be manipulated  but the file linked above does not show changes relative to the 2000 election.


      •  I checked this. the expected votes is the number (none)
        of votes from the last election. So indeed, it is relative to Gore's votes. They should have worded it better, but the original poster is correct.

        "And they call reading a sin, and writing a crime. They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else." Thomas Bernhard

        by upstate NY on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:05:07 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hmm .. not what i find (none)
          If I check the 2000 results for Duval county
          here, Gore got 108,309 votes.  If I check the site linked above here,  "expected votes" are 157,624.

          Plus the description at the bottom of the page describes the calculation of expected votes as registered dem voters adjusted for turnout.

          I'd encourage people to be careful with the numbers being thrown around because you can waste a lot of people's time when you don't carefully check out what the numbers actually represent.

          Why the author linked to above didn't use Gore's vote totals is a mystery.  But the author's calculation of expected voters is way too crude to be useful and has mislead a lot of posters on this thread.


      •  oops (none)
        You're right, sorry about that.  Still, they're damning figures.

        Bush saw an increase of 66,494 votes in Duval from 00 to 04; Kerry only saw in increase of 49,944.  Slightly more believable, but not when you consider how many Democrat votes weren't counted in '00 and how many more people we registered since then.

    •  Oh my God, that's an eye opener. (3.66)
      I dare anyone who is dismissing our claims of fraud to explain Duval to me.

      Thank you for pointing that out.

      The numbers don't add up.

      Here's a quote from the NY Times article: " In Duval County, where a confusing ballot design in 2000 helped disqualify thousands of ballots in black precincts, new registrations by black voters are up 150 percent over the pace of 2000. "

      Now, I looked at Duval. The GOP had a 56.5% increase in votes for Bush. The democrats were -10%. As you said. And this is after the 2000 election when blacks were disenfranchised in that county. Bush killed Kerry in that county, 219k to 158k. He killed him. What's the registration in Duval? 36% GOP and 46% Democrat. What's the voter turnout? 73%. High turnout. How can there be high turnout in a predominately Democratic district, a district where 150% more African-Americans were registered than last time (and presumably a lot more Dems as well), and yet we have Bush absolutely running away with the vote by a huge margin, and Kerry pulls 10% less of the vote than Gore did, in a year 2000 in which Dems were disenfranchised?

      "And they call reading a sin, and writing a crime. They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else." Thomas Bernhard

      by upstate NY on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:02:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  duval (none)
        for the first week the only early voting location was far far away from northwest Jacksonville, making it very difficult for the african american community disenfranchised in 2000 to participate in early voting. Thus when polls opened on tuesday, lines at polling places were long, and not enough machines to handle the crowds. I also heard problems with correct precincts, polling change flyers and phone know..the usual

        what do you say to the last republican who votes kerry instead of bush so as not to make another mistake

        by demnomore on Thu Nov 04, 2004 at 08:41:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's the optical scan machines! (none)
        We were focusing on the Diebold machines, which might still be changing every xth vote to Bush, and we'll never know, but maybe the bigger fraud are those optical scan machines that are misreporting the votes, and we have some proof of it!
        Duval county is a black county! They vote democratic, so where're their votes?
        Shouldn't we email this to the news organisation?
        Couldn't we email this to the democratic senators and house reps? Is there a list of those addresses or emails somewhere in the kos web site?
        Can some people start a separate web site "Surprising Election Results" which collects information only on this issue?
        •  Lots of fishy counties... (none)
          I went through each county...putting together stats for 2000 and 2004 and on top noting machine used and the gain or loss in percent over previous election. Then I search for earlier issues with the machine

          (I don't know why I am doing this, I'm sure it's done else where in more telling math. I just need to do SOMETHING)

          Duval does not make sense but it is nearly the only county Bush did not get a higher percentage then last time, though we know Kerry's gain should higher.

          op scan net change Bush +0 Kerry/Gore +1
          DUVAL 2000
          GORE  108,039 41%
          BUSH 152,460  58%
          Duval 2004
          Bush 218,476 58%
          Kerry 157,624 42%

          But here are a few examples where I have looked into the history:
          For instance even in ones Democrats won::

          E-Touchscreen net change Bush +4 Kerry/Gore -3
          BROWARD 2000
          GORE 387,760 67%
          BUSH 177,939  31
          BROWARD 2004
          Kerry  443,535 64%
          Bush  238,397 35%
          Broward County,Florida. November 2002. ES&S.
          Machines register votes for opponents.

          Palm Beach E-Touchscreen net change Bush +4 Kerry/Gore -1
          PALM BEACH 2000
          GORE 269,754 62%
          BUSH 152,964 35%
          Palm Beach 2004
          Kerry  325,808 61% 99% of precincts reporting
          Bush 210,580 39%
          Palm Beach County, Florida. March, 2002. Sequoia.
          AVC Edge paperless voting machines registered votes for the wrong candidate in a remarkable upset race
          Palm Beach County, Florida. March 2002. Sequoia.
          Touch screens froze up, registered incorrect vote.
          Palm Beach County, Florida. October, 2004. Sequoia.
          Touch screens fail in the second day of early voting.
          November 2002, Palm Beach Florida -- A Florida woman, a former news reporter, discovered that votes were being tabulated in 644 Palm Beach precincts, but only 643 precincts have any eligible voters. An earlier court case in Florida found the same discrepancy, and the reason for it was never satisfactorily explained

          op-scan  net change Bush +4 Kerry/Gore -2
          VOLUSIA 2000
          GORE 97,313 53%
          BUSH 82,368 45%
          Volusia 2004
          Kerry  114,986 51%
          Bush 111,263 49%
          Volusia County, Florida. November 2000. Diebold.
          AccuVote Optical Scanner inexplicably subtracts 16,022 votes.
           ".......Something very strange happened on election night to Deborah Tannenbaum, a Democratic Party official in Volusia County. At 10 p.m., she called the county elections department and learned that Al Gore was leading George W. Bush 83,000 votes to 62,000. ....... But when she checked the county's Web site for an update half an hour later, she found a startling development: Gore's count had dropped by 16,000 votes, while an obscure Socialist candidate had picked up 10,000--all because of a single precinct with only 600 voters........It was the beginning of a week-long tragicomedy of errors in this central Florida county, where an initial count showed Gore beating Bush by 97,063 votes to 82,214.

          As well as Republican counties
          op-scan  net change  Bush +5 Kerry/Gore -4
          POLK 2000
          GORE 75,207 45%
          BUSH 90,310 54%
          Polk 2004
          Bush 123,457 59%
          Kerry  85,923 41%
          In Polk County Florida, County Commissioner Marlene Duffy Young lost the election to Bruce Parker, but regained the seat after a court-ordered hand recount. After the recount, county commissioners unanimously voted to ask for a grand jury probe. Testifying were Todd Urosevich, a vice president with American Information Systems Inc., the company that sold the county its ballot-counting equipment. The machines had given the election to Parker (a Republican) but a hand recount revealed that Young (a Democrat) had won. Todd Urosevich said his machines were not responsible for the miscount

          op-scan  net change Bush + 12 Kerry/Gore -10
          UNION 2000
          GORE  1,407 37%
          BUSH 2,332  61%
          Union 2004
          Bush  3,396 73%
          Kerry  1,251 27%
          Union County, Florida. September, 2002. ES&S.
          Optical scan ballot programming error incorrectly gave all votes in one race to one candidate.
          In Union County, Florida a programming error caused machines to read 2,642 Democratic and Republican votes as entirely Republican. The vendor, ES&S, accepted responsibility for the incorrect programming.

          Among the problems outlined by the Democratic Party in the infamous Florida election in 2000: A faulty "memory card" in a polling machine, which counts and reports the tally by modem, resulted in a DeLand precinct's reporting that presidential candidate Al Gore had negative 16,022 votes. The computerized vote tally gave the Socialist Workers Party candidate almost 10,000 votes -- about half the number he received nationwide

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