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View Diary: Overnight News Digest: Obama Goes To Bat For FISA Secrecy (218 comments)

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  •  Read this article... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wader, tomjones, trivium, palantir

    Then just give him some patience:

    NYT Article

    Specifically:

    The case dealing with the state secrets doctrine, which allows the government to rebuff lawsuits by invoking national security concerns, involves al-Haramain Islamic Foundation. A federal trial judge in San Francisco ruled that the government could not invoke the doctrine to block a lawsuit by al-Haramain, which has asserted that the government illegally listened in on its conversations.

    The Bush administration used the doctrine to block more than two dozen lawsuits. In timing that was a bit of a surprise, the Justice Department lawyers who have handled the lawsuit filed a motion with the court an hour before Inauguration Day that held to the same position.

    Some Obama administration figures regarded the filing before midnight on Jan. 19 as a rear-guard action to make it more difficult to reverse course.

    •  That's old news now, calchala (13+ / 0-)

      That's from a Feb. 2 article. It's February 13 now and we know what the government has done. Why difficult to reverse course? That's a cover story for betrayal. And if my language sounds strong, that's because the magnitude of the betrayal is large.

      You can't look at this case in isolation from the intervention by the Obama State Department to warn the British from revealing in court info on torture in the Binyam case, nor from the decision to invoke "state secrets privilege" last Tuesday on the Jeppesen lawsuit.

      Every damn thing they've done has made clear what course they intend to follow. Apologists beware! Your alibis are turning as thin as gossamer.

      War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade Invictus

      by Valtin on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 09:31:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No one seems to offer patience (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wader, tomjones

        He's had to get his entire team in place in less than a month, which he's still having trouble in doing so.  I really don't think these are his positions.  I think the Bush Administration left him with such a large hole, that it made it damn near impossible to dig out of.  Just give him a couple of months, and then make a judgment.  If these are his positions, then I'm going to eat my hat.  If they're not, then you're just spreading paranoia and I'm outta here.

        •  His attorneys have declared them to be his (8+ / 0-)

          positins - read the stuf on the Binyam cae - perfectly clear - his DOJ vetted the cse and teh planned action and then acted as planned.

          "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

          by enhydra lutris on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 10:02:05 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Just stop it (11+ / 0-)

          You're really insulting everyone's intelligence here. If he wasn't ready, he would have asked for a delay. That straw man has been shot down countless times to the point where you literally have to be living in a cave to not get it.

          This week's motions were by the DoJ, and made the Obama DoJ's position on them absolutely clear. To assert otherwise is to say that they have some rogue Bushie attorneys that after 4 days Obama's people still don't know about or have done anything about, and to claim that is absurd. He's not stupid, nor is Holder.

          Now, a tiny part of my wants to believe that they WANT to lose these motions, and set them up such that they would be likely to. But that's pure conjecture, and a risky move at that because what if the 9th or SCOTUS side with the DoJ?

          Anyway, at this point it's rediculous to believe that any MAJOR actions are taking place in the Obama administration that are contrary to its wishes. I've no doubt that Bushie burrowers are busy laying traps where they can. But this is not trap. This is totally out in the open for all to see. If you and I and half the blogosphere know about it, trust me, so do Holder and Obama, and if they weren't ok with it, they'd have stopped it.

          The liberal soul shall be made fat. He who waters shall be watered also himself. (Proverbs 11:25)

          by kovie on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 10:04:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wanting to lose (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kyril, FarWestGirl

            That would be a truly brilliant move.  Overplay their hand just enough to piss off the judges and get a ruling against them, but not enough that anyone thinks they're trying to throw the game.  Get the liberals fuming, put a dent in the wingers' whining, and reassure the man behind the man that Obama's really on his side, but, you see, with these dang courts there's nothing they can do.

            Highly risky, as you say.  But riskier than telling the military, intelligence, and war profiteer establishment to piss off?

            While the Bush/Cheney administration literally were organized crime bosses, our mafia model of political/economic power hasn't changed that much, even given recent events.

            Yeah, I think it's wishful thinking too, and that Obama is just making the standard "safe" play for more power.  If only, though...

            Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

            by Simplify on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 11:54:11 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  vaitin is producing verifiable (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Valtin, thethinveil

          facts. You're pulling notions out of your ass and trying to use them to spin facts in Obama's favor.

          Given your contribution to the noise part of the signal to noise ratio around here, why wait a couple of months?

          You can be "outta here" right now and not be missed.

          Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

          by alizard on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 10:11:24 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not cool to tell people to get the hell out (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blogpotato, FarWestGirl

            when they have something to discuss and are not trolling, IMHO.

            Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it valid to push people off the site.

            You can always debate and ignore.

            "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

            by wader on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 10:57:30 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  meh (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              wader, alizard, blogpotato, thethinveil

              Did that herself:

              If they're not, then you're just spreading paranoia and I'm outta here.

              Not cool to threaten to leave when you don't like what you hear. That is the equivalent of saying "there's something wrong with you people."

              My 2 cents. I'm tired of people saying this site is fucked up every time someone voices a criticism of Obama.

              •  I don't think this is about Obama (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                blogpotato, kyril

                but about people becoming polarized due to personality clashes, IMHO.

                I'm an original Obama supporter who found myself chastising and challenging fellow supporters during the nomination run for screeds against Clinton that were beyond the pale, so I realize it can get partisan here pretty quickly, sure.

                But, these spats don't need to get various sides to the point where people threaten in both directions to either leave from frustration or push people off due to mirrored frustrations.  I find the push off stance more onerous, from a community perspective - only because that seems to have more of a chance in leading towards mob behavior (which I'm not accusing anyone of in this subthread, btw).

                Your perspective on this kind of site issue has been rather consistent, but thanks for sharing your perspective in this particular context.  It keeps me thinking.

                "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

                by wader on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 11:14:28 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  If some of the Obama supporters only listened to (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  wader, alizard, kyril

                  his own words - how people have a right to be heard and that the campaign was about us not him. That We can push for progressive steps to be made and we have a duty to do that as progressives.

                  If this means pushing Pres Obama to make the right choices and more accurately pushing back the other people who are pushing Pres Obama to make reactionary choices then so be it.

                  Was it any different under Pres Clinton?

                  Clinton was left off the hook by many liberals on issues such as welfare reform and NAFTA and see where that landed us.

                  "I can't read! I sign my name with an X! I once tried to make mashed potatoes with laundry detergent! I think I voted for Nader! NADER!" TJ

                  by thethinveil on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 12:07:27 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  I think it's a responsibility (0+ / 0-)

              to call out bullshit when it's posted, and that a "My President Right or Wrong" guy is of no use whatsoever in a public policy discussion regardless of who the President is.

              Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

              by alizard on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 05:05:28 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  yes, the president of the United States, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          alizard, kyril, thethinveil

          buoyed by a solid electoral mandate and stellar approval ratings, is utterly helpless against the power of a totally discredited administration whose policies the American people decisively rejected.

          Bush isn't president anymore. Obama is. And he's responsible for adopting the Bush policies as his own.

          What part of "the buck stops here" is so difficult to understand?

          "In America, the law is king." --Thomas Paine

          by limpidglass on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 11:03:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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