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View Diary: John Judis and What Army? (41 comments)

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  •  Congratulations, you JUST MADE JUDIS' POINT! (4+ / 0-)

    The large left-wing movements are all incapable of mounting a campaign to the left of Obama because their membership is more loyal to him than them.

    Duh.

    This is a problem. There was always a massive, disciplined, vocal cabal of lunatics and morons even further to the right than the Bush administration and Congressional Republicans. This gave them free rein to ignore any pull towards the center and remain over in cloud cuckoo land.

    Unfortunately, the lack of a popular movement to the left of Obama is going to make it very hard for him to counter that rightward tug. We're going to see a lot of watering down, like the stimulus was ultimately watered down (it's still better than nothing, but worse than the ideal), unless a populist movement can wrest the Overton window from the cold, preferably dead, hands of idiots like Rush Limbaugh.

    I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong. - Bertrand Russell
    -5.38, -6.41

    by sullivanst on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 11:24:22 AM PST

    •  So how do you get there? (9+ / 0-)

      Judis' other point was that organized labor and two other organizations should have bucked their own membership (something that he should know would expend so much of their limited political capital and yet still it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the Stimulus bill because nobody - certainly not the White House - would have believed they really did speak for their members.)

      You don't get from point A to point B by calling on others to do things for you.

      I recommend you get out there and organize among the people to create what you bemoan is missing. Mere blogging, commenting or New Republic essaying about it is not organizing.

      •  You miss the point (0+ / 0-)

        Obama's supporter base, more or less by definition, is going to be incapable of mobilizing to support positions to the left of Obama. They're going to be supporting Obama's position.

        That means we're left with a tension of the populist left arguing for exactly what Obama is proposing, and the right arguing way right of what Obama is proposing. Any compromise in that situation is forced to go right.

        He nowhere states that the unions or Change for America or MoveOn "should have" ignored their membership. He said they weren't capable of positioning themselves to the left of Obama, and that's a huge problem.

        They're not capable of doing that. And that's a huge problem.

        I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong. - Bertrand Russell
        -5.38, -6.41

        by sullivanst on Sun Feb 15, 2009 at 10:20:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Al has NOT made Judis' point... (6+ / 0-)

      ...Judis would have some unnamed organization or popular angry mob (that doesn't persuade anyone) to Obama's left somehow "push him" somewhere. He doesn't suggest any group that can actually move him. What Al is saying (I think) is that Obama's own "followers" can.

      I might add that if you only depend on party or elite group members (much less actual union members) for support of your positions, you'll be waiting a very long time for something like EFCA to pass. Some people on this site (I can only speak for myself at this point, but I'd like to think there are more!) are not "members", but support President Obama in many of his positions as explained and taken during his campaign.

      In addition, those of us described as "in Obama's pocket" don't seem to be taken for granted as far as I can tell. OFA seems to be continuing the mantra of "respect, empower, include," and as long as they do, I'll continue calling, knocking, and donating for them.  

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