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View Diary: Chomsky on the Economic Crisis (53 comments)

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  •  By Not Talking About Venezuela As Anything (11+ / 0-)

    other than a denunciation of Chavez, we fail to see that there is more possible than the lockstep of the developed world. A handful of players have found a way of going around the respectable order which has brought imposed starvation through sanctions, cluster bombing and neoliberal wars, and economically weaned themselves off.

    Perhaps we can find a way to do that and create a flourishing civilization of opportunity and human rights.

    That is all. Individually, I wish you the best, but collectively, my dearest hope is to outlive you - groovetronica

    by Nulwee on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:25:10 PM PST

    •  Venezuela's commodity based economy (0+ / 0-)

      is far more dependent than most others on the "neoliberal order".  Bolivarism needs neoliberalisms hunger for oil to pay the bills.

      •  Yes, But You Seem To Have Missed (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ganymeade, JesseCW, Larsstephens

        the finance experiments that Venezuela and Bolivia are making. Oil is not going anywhere, and it's not Venezuela who's subservient in the relationship.

        That is all. Individually, I wish you the best, but collectively, my dearest hope is to outlive you - groovetronica

        by Nulwee on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:30:58 PM PST

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        •  Clearly, at the moment (0+ / 0-)

          oil is way down, and Venezuela's "experiments" have them risking bankruptcy.  Venezuelans non oil based economy has been shrinking for years.  Chavez has done a few very clever things, but the stupid and grandiose ones he has done bury them unfortunately.

          •  So You're Blaming Oil Prices On Venezuela? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Larsstephens

            That is all. Individually, I wish you the best, but collectively, my dearest hope is to outlive you - groovetronica

            by Nulwee on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:39:06 PM PST

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            •  I'm blaming Venezuela (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fladem

              on basing their entire economy around oil.  It was not that way in 1999.  I am also blaming Venezuela for pouring their oil profits exclusively into social programs at the expense of capital investment, and turning their state oil companies, rather than simply as revenue sources for the state to be managed as such, into politically motivated welfare tools.  Venezuela has not put much thought into tommorrow.  Even a well run state capitalist society would have had more foresight.

              •  Politically Motivated Welfare Tools? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                zenobia, Larsstephens

                Hyperbole, much? There's a lot I can agree with or at least sympathize with in your argument. Venezuela hasn't made a utopia, but my point is that it's begun creating a unique society, rightly or wrongly. Haiti wasn't able to do it, and Mexico wasn't able to do it, and Venezuela certainly didn't get to do it back in the middle of the 20th century.

                That is all. Individually, I wish you the best, but collectively, my dearest hope is to outlive you - groovetronica

                by Nulwee on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:46:45 PM PST

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          •  Venezuela Is In Better Shape Than U.S. (7+ / 0-)

            Venezuela has a very low debt and billions of dollars in reserves to weather the world economic crisis.
             
            Judging by all construction, new cars, and thriving businesses here in Mérida, Ve., Venedzuela is thriving.

            Those who predict economic doom for Ve, seem to be guilty of wishful thinking.  These dire predictions seem to emanate from those who oppose Chavez's socialist movement and want to see it fail.

            In the ten years since Chavez has been in office, the unemployment rate has been enormously reduced, social services that never existed with prior governments are in place, including thousands of free health care clinics.  

            The government provides subsidized food, fuel and housing, as well as low or interest free loans to start-up worker owned cooperatives and for small private businesses. Missions which sent teams of teachers throughout the country have increased literacy to almost 90%, and everyone now has the opportunity to access free higher education.

            Chavez and his government have used the profits from their oil resources very well -- to actually improve the conditions of life for their people.

            Genital Slicing IS Torture: Convict Bush and His War criminals.

            by Justina on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:50:30 PM PST

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            •  I disagree (0+ / 0-)

              Venezuela has a very low debt and billions of dollars in reserves to weather the world economic crisis.

              While your debt is low, the likelihood of it increasing rabidly and unsustainably vs. the US in the near future is pretty high.  I'd rather take my chances with the US.  So would most experts.  Additionally, the high inflation rate in your country is troubling and seems to have an impact on your low public debt levels.  Given a decade of plus 15% inflation, I suspect the US's public debt would look less intimidating as well.

              Judging by all construction, new cars, and thriving businesses here in Mérida, Ve., Venedzuela is thriving.

              Those who predict economic doom for Ve, seem to be guilty of wishful thinking.  These dire predictions seem to emanate from those who oppose Chavez's socialist movement and want to see it fail.

              In the ten years since Chavez has been in office, the unemployment rate has been enormously reduced, social services that never existed with prior governments are in place, including thousands of free health care clinics.  

              The government provides subsidized food, fuel and housing, as well as low or interest free loans to start-up worker owned cooperatives and for small private businesses. Missions which sent teams of teachers throughout the country have increased literacy to almost 90%, and everyone now has the opportunity to access free higher education.

              Can Venezuela afford it without a consistent $100 barrel of oil is the question I ask.   I wish you luck, but its not a policy I'd support.

      •  And it's a disaster (0+ / 0-)

        Chavez can't even generate electriticy.  He is now asking the Oil Companies to come back in because Venezuela's production is decline.

        The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

        by fladem on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:45:55 PM PST

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      •  Neoliberalism is NOT an ideology (0+ / 0-)

        of oil dependence.

        Venezuela is dependent on those dependent for oil, but that has nothing to do with neoliberalism.

        I love the smell of impeachment in the morning!

        by gabbardd on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 08:59:36 PM PST

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    •  Venezuela is in decline. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      iRobert

      Their economy is in a tough spot, and it'll get worse unless they make some drastic changes.  

      We are building a team that is continuously being built. - Sarah Palin

      by burrow owl on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:29:53 PM PST

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      •  Eh, Where Isn't In A Tough Spot? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ScienceMom, ganymeade, Anorish, JesseCW

        Brasil? Venezuela and Iran's economies are dependent on oil, and suffering accordingly at this moment. But that doesn't mean that Venezuela is actually functioning, and parts of Brasil and other developed nations are far worse than Venezuela. Live in Ciudad Juarez or Chihuahua for a day and tell me Caracas isn't better?

        That is all. Individually, I wish you the best, but collectively, my dearest hope is to outlive you - groovetronica

        by Nulwee on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:32:53 PM PST

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        •  Bingo. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Nulwee, JesseCW

          Let the mega banks fail, restore depositors, and watch smaller, regional banks flourish! NO BAD BANK! (for the love of God, Barack, it's not that hard!)

          by Paul Goodman on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:38:52 PM PST

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        •  Caracas is nicer. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          fladem

          Venezuela, generally, is nicer.  But Brazil is stable and growing a production based economy.  Venezuela has an unstable, commodity based economy that is not growing.  Today Caracas seems nice, but twenty years from now Caracas will seem a bit like Detroit to Rio's Charlotte.

          •  Brasil is a Massive Country! (0+ / 0-)

            you can't even compare the two. Venezuela does not have the strength of demographics, the sheer resources, the sheer land, the agricultural and mining and forestry possibilities that Brasil enjoys. You're comparing Alaska to California.

            That is all. Individually, I wish you the best, but collectively, my dearest hope is to outlive you - groovetronica

            by Nulwee on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:43:57 PM PST

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            •  Somehow (0+ / 0-)

              South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Poland, the Czech Republic,and Chile have made do with little or less than Brazil or Venezuela.  And the UAE has done a better job of diversifying out of their oil economy by far, to the extent oil and natural gas now only make up 6% of their GDP.  And, by the same token then, comparing Rio to Caracas is not really fair, right?

        •  Or For That Matter, Compare It To Columbia. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW, Larsstephens

          That is all. Individually, I wish you the best, but collectively, my dearest hope is to outlive you - groovetronica

          by Nulwee on Tue Feb 17, 2009 at 06:44:16 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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