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View Diary: Microsoft lets 25 employees keep stolen money (44 comments)

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  •  If you recieve something in the mail... (0+ / 0-)

    ...that you didn't order you are entitled to keep it.

    •  You can't open mail not addressed to you (0+ / 0-)

      so how you'd even know is beyond me.

      •  No. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mijita, myrealname, not a cent

        If something is sent to me and I didn't order it I am entitled to keep it.

        That's the law.

        I'm not talking about something sent to someone else that ended up in my mail box by mistake.

        •  That law doesn't apply to money (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cali Techie

          mistakenly deposited in your bank account. Spending that money is theft, felony FRAUD.

            •  Well, you're wrong, it's Grand Theft (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Cali Techie

              Here's but one example:

               A Brooklyn, New York, woman who says she struck it rich in an international lottery "is now in the poor house because her 'winnings' were actually donations" to the UN Environment Program. The funds, which totaled $701,998, were wired into the bank account of Susan Madakor because the account number provided to donors was off by one digit (Dareh Gregorian, New York Post, 24 Dec)

              And here:

              An accidental deposit of $99,000 into Gore's Liberty Bank account — a banking blunder — led to a spending spree and to a trip to the Collier County jail, Naples police say.

              Gore, 50, of 1053 Milano Drive, Naples, was arrested Thursday and charged with grand theft.

              Reports give this account:

              Police were called to Liberty Bank on Monday and the branch manager explained about the mistake.

              She told police that on March 17 $99,509.25 accidentally was deposited into Gore's bank account. And since he discovered money, he has withdrawn $19,004.33 before the bank found the "glitch," reports say.

              The bank tried and failed to reach Gore. And the money has not been returned to the bank.

              •  That's completely different. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                A Citizen
                •  How? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Shane Hensinger

                  It's the same thing. A person got extra money to which s/he isn't entitled due to a clerical error and was jailed for spending it instead of returning it.

                  Looks like apples and apples to me.

                  Now is the time to investigate, prosecute, and imprison the former Bush regime. -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 11:08:52 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Severance (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                optimusprime, Snarcalita

                Having massive sums of money accidentally deposited in your account is one thing. For one, it's blindingly obvious that it is a mistake, and secondly it's obvious that it wasn't your money in the first place. The difference in this situation is that it is not so obvious that a mistake was made, and the amount was offered my Microsoft. If you're offered severance pay that is somewhat greater than might be expected, it's not obvious that a mistake was made. I've only gotten a severance package once, and it was larger than I expected, but it wasn't a mistake. Should I have assumed that it was a mistake?

                •  Depends (0+ / 0-)

                  Usually larger companies will tell you how much they're paying you in your final check. If the check is substantially more than what they tell you you're supposed to be getting, then there's probably been a mistake.

                  When I worked for gigantacorp, we got fairly nice annual bonuses. The way it was supposed to work was the supervisor was supposed to tell you the day before you received the bonus that you were getting it and how much you were supposed to get. I had been with the company a bit less than one year when one day a fairly large sum of money appeared in my checking account for no apparent reason between paydays. It was my annual bonus. My supervisor was out sick the day my group was to be notified of the bonus and how much, and his boss forgot to do it for him. It wasn't a mistake, but it was something that scared the piss out of me until I found out what it was, then it was party time!

                  Now is the time to investigate, prosecute, and imprison the former Bush regime. -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 11:25:55 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  The Microsoft Employees Probably Weren't Told (0+ / 0-)

                    The final amount in their severance checks.  In my (recent case), the check itself was the sole documentation of the amount.  This was because they did not want anything in the paperwork to be construed as a contract, or promise to pay or whatever.  So, people likely thought, "Wow, that is better than I expected" and deposited the checks.

                    You can call me "Lord Bink Forester de Rothschild."

                    by bink on Tue Feb 24, 2009 at 04:13:23 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  And Final Checks (0+ / 0-)

                      Are typically paper, so Microsoft would not be able to "go into your checking account and debit" the corrected amount.

                      You can call me "Lord Bink Forester de Rothschild."

                      by bink on Tue Feb 24, 2009 at 04:15:09 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  True (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Shane Hensinger

                        but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to demand overpayment be returned and that they can't use the force of law to get it back.

                        I think Microsoft was exceedingly generous in letting the terminated employees keep the overage, but it was only to maintain good PR, not for any altruistic reasons.

                        Now is the time to investigate, prosecute, and imprison the former Bush regime. -6.0 -5.33

                        by Cali Techie on Tue Feb 24, 2009 at 07:09:25 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Hunh (0+ / 0-)

                          But how was it overpayment?  If the employees just got some information on "how to estimate their separation," but the actual amount is only documented on the checks they received ...  I don't know.  Microsoft might make a goodwill appeal to former employees to return part of their severance package, but if I were one of them, I would not do it.

                          You can call me "Lord Bink Forester de Rothschild."

                          by bink on Tue Feb 24, 2009 at 07:25:18 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  I worked for gigantacorp (0+ / 0-)

                      And the paperwork I received when I exited the company gave an itemized "estimation" of how much was in my final check. It included things like regular pay, accrued vacation, etc., and I had to sign paperwork acknowledging I received it. One of the last things it said in big 24-point type at the bottom was:

                      "THIS IS NOT A CONTRACT"

                      Not all companies do it the same way though.

                      Now is the time to investigate, prosecute, and imprison the former Bush regime. -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Tue Feb 24, 2009 at 07:06:30 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

    •  That's different (0+ / 0-)

      It's to keep companies from sending you stuff you didn't order then trying to get you to pay for it.

      Keeping an overpayment is considered the same as theft in the eyes of the law.

      Now is the time to investigate, prosecute, and imprison the former Bush regime. -6.0 -5.33

      by Cali Techie on Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 10:40:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

        •  Yes it is (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Shane Hensinger

          But the law isn't.

          Now is the time to investigate, prosecute, and imprison the former Bush regime. -6.0 -5.33

          by Cali Techie on Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 10:52:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Like when I go to the supermarket.... (0+ / 0-)

            ....and they overcharge me?

            Tell me. Will the cops put the owner of the supermarket in jail if I file a complaint?

            •  If you're overcharged (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mijita, Shane Hensinger

              at the supermarket, that's fraud and yes, you have the right to bring the force of law upon them. Usually though they'll correct it PDQ if you bring it up. If you walk out knowing you were overcharged without mentioning it, then you're a fool.

              If it's a mistake you find later and you can show you were overcharged you have the right to have the difference refunded immediately in the same form you paid.

              The law does work both ways.

              Now is the time to investigate, prosecute, and imprison the former Bush regime. -6.0 -5.33

              by Cali Techie on Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 11:01:43 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah? (0+ / 0-)

                So if I get home and discover I was overcharged you're telling me that if I call the police they will go arrest the owner of the supermarket and charge them with fraud?

                •  Only if (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Shane Hensinger

                  you can prove you were overcharged and they refuse to refund the difference, yes - more or less. Actually they'll launch an investigation to see if it was systematic and bring criminal charges against those who were responsible for it.

                  Absolutely.

                  You are however positing an unrealistic scenario since if a grocery store overcharges you for something it's on the order of just a few dollars, not thousands, so it wouldn't be GRAND theft, exactly and they'll very immediately offer you a refund of the difference. Some stores will even go so far as to give you $5-$10 more than what you're due in order to buy your good will. It's not as common today as it was 20 or 30 years ago because the prices are all in central databases now, where they used to be hand entered into the systems, and prior to computers they used to be hand applied to the packaging. I remember those days very well and I got to be really good with a pricing gun.

                  Now is the time to investigate, prosecute, and imprison the former Bush regime. -6.0 -5.33

                  by Cali Techie on Mon Feb 23, 2009 at 11:16:58 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Yeah they will (0+ / 0-)

                    get them working in shifts down at the station on that one.

                    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt

                    by norahc on Tue Feb 24, 2009 at 02:46:16 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  How often (0+ / 0-)

                      do you get overcharged at the grocery store and have them refuse to refund the difference?

                      The rare times I have been overcharged it was met with profuse apologies and hopes that it wouldn't cause me to go shopping somewhere else.

                      It doesn't pay for any retailer to charge more than their advertised price for an item. In California it's against the law to charge more than the posted price even if it's an expired sale price and they forgot to take the sign down. If a retailer doesn't honor the posted price the state can and will revoke their business licenses, the corporate equivalent of the death penalty.

                      Now is the time to investigate, prosecute, and imprison the former Bush regime. -6.0 -5.33

                      by Cali Techie on Tue Feb 24, 2009 at 12:16:01 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

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