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View Diary: Forced Navajo Relocation Continues on Big Mountain (Update) (197 comments)

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  •  Yeah, like I was saying... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Caj, capelza

    It is actually racist to take the view that native groups cannot possibly have done anything to cause problems, cannot possibly have invaded an area. Yeah, Europeans have done a lot of damage. But even sweet little brown skinned people can be imperialists and try to conquer their neighbors. In this case the Hopi were absolutely there first. The Navajo did not move there because of Europeans.
    Palestine and Israel is extremely different. But yeah, lots of people who claim to be progressives take the side of the Palestinians simply because they are less European and therefire are assumed, based on racist prejudice, to be innocent victims. This denies them their history as members of the peoples that invaded and conquered various parts of Europe for over 800 years, not to mention large parts of India and obviously all of the Middle East.

    •  Racist against who? (2+ / 0-)
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      capelza, Tyto Alba

      Like Ferraro claimed everyone was racist against her?

      She nourishes us; that which we put into the ground she returns to us. Big Thunder

      by Winter Rabbit on Sun Mar 01, 2009 at 07:18:23 PM PST

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      •  Thought it was obvious... (0+ / 0-)

        racist period. Any belief in differences based on membership in a group, believing for example that white people are violent aggressors always and brown skinned people are always peaceful victims is just flat out racist. In this case, it is a racist view of both.

        •  That's a conservative deflection method (5+ / 0-)

          for denying the truth of what happened. Convenient, really. It's racist to say the White Europeans committed genocide for 500 years? I call that, False Historical Memory Syndrome.

          Better not say the ones who committed genocide against American Indians were white europeans, then your racist. Holder is right, this is a nation of cowards.

          She nourishes us; that which we put into the ground she returns to us. Big Thunder

          by Winter Rabbit on Sun Mar 01, 2009 at 07:48:32 PM PST

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          •  No. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BoxNDox, Fresno

            It's racist to say the White Europeans committed genocide for 500 years?

            Clearly that isn't even remotely close to what the poster was saying.
             
            Rather, he/she is arguing that it's racist to assume that the Hopi/Navajo tribal disputes are manufactured by Europeans; it reflects an attitude that the indigenous people are basically too simple to have their own inter-national disputes, and indeed that they can be duped into acting out fake ones.
                         

            •  You defend a comment with this in it? (0+ / 0-)

              But even sweet little brown skinned people can be imperialists and try to conquer their neighbors.

              And as for your comment below, possible false analogy. Was she telling the Navajo how to pronounce their language or what their culture is? I haven't written a book on culture or history. Authors who are non indian who write about their culture are supposed go have tribal approval. Is it O.K with you I quote an interview below with Louise Benally? Is that "trying to "tell their story?'" The journalist was then too I guess, right?

              I'm speaking against their forced relocation in the instances cited, which is current.

              And you missed this too, defending it?

              The Navajo did not move there because of Europeans.

              http://intercontinentalcry.org/...

              Navajos at Big Mountain resisting forced relocation view the 19th Century prison camp of Bosque Redondo and the war in Iraq as a continuum of U.S. government sponsored terror. Louise Benally of Big Mountain remembered her great-grandfather and other Navajos driven from their beloved homeland by the U.S. Army on foot for hundreds of miles while witnessing the murder, rape and starvation of their family and friends.

              "I think these poor children had gone through so much, but, yet they had the will to go on and live their lives. If it weren’t for that, we wouldn’t be here today.

              - snip -

              "The U.S. military first murders your people and destroys your way of life while stealing your culture, then forces you to learn their evil ways of lying and cheating," Benally said.

              Of course, the Europeans were already here, and the American Indians came from the Old World.

              I am aghast at some the willful denial displayed here on this thread.

              She nourishes us; that which we put into the ground she returns to us. Big Thunder

              by Winter Rabbit on Tue Mar 03, 2009 at 07:01:07 PM PST

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    •  My brain is still in that frozen mode.... (1+ / 0-)
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      capelza

      that one gets after eating ice cream too fast.

      Were the various Indian nations not always living in peace between themselves? Of course not. It is a sad part of human nature.

      But to say the Europeans had nothing to do with this is absurd. I'm from Illinois. There is a lot of history about how the French and English played the tribes off each other for political gain. At the end of the day, France and England still exist. The native American tribes in Illinois? No so much. Thousands of years of history gone.

      I doubt they would have killed themselves off without European land greed.

      But you really overreach when you think that a farmer living near Khan Yunis in the 20th Century has anything to do with empire growthand decline that went on for thousands of years in the Middle east. Maybe it's okay to take an Italian's farm because of the Roman empire? There are a couple of good Souvlaki stands in Greece I think I am entitled to because the Greek empire surely screwed over some of my relatives a few thousands of years ago. Those damn Greeks aren't innocent!

      And that you think that people that actually write books on the history of region, speak the various languages, and as such are upset at the current settlement policy, are 'racists' is quite telling of your own thought process.

    •  Re: racism (1+ / 0-)
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      tribalypredisposed

      Once on a trip to the Navajo Nation I checked out a panel discussion on Navajo code-talkers. I teach cryptography, and thought it would be awesome to cover their code in detail.  The panel included surviving code-talkers and a lady who wrote a book about them.  
         
      Really the event was just to promote the lady's book, but I got some great stuff:  the code-talkers recited example transmissions, and they distributed handouts of the code samples.  We got to hear all about their experiences in the service.
         
      At first it was very awesome, but when it got to the Q&A session I was shocked at how the book's author treated the Dine like children.  She kept talking about how she was trying to "tell their story," but if anyone asked them a question she'd just cut in and answer it for them.  She'd let through some very simple softball ones, but cut them off when anything got beyond a fourth-grade level.  
         
      It was particularly jarring because these dudes were super crypto badasses--the accuracy and speed at which they transmitted secure messages was unheard of in the military at the time---and the white lady just wrote a book about how they were super crypto badasses.  Yet when put on the spot, she acted like her subjects had to be sheltered from complex ideas,  given a sippy cup and a nap.
         
      I have seen that kind of behavior online before, but never in person and never so starkly.

      •  I know of at least two tribes that don't have (0+ / 0-)

        "enemy" in their language. Maybe you can find out whether or not the Navajo and the Hopi do. I'm betting they don't. There's a "complex idea" for you that actually relates to the content of the diary.

        She nourishes us; that which we put into the ground she returns to us. Big Thunder

        by Winter Rabbit on Tue Mar 03, 2009 at 07:08:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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