Skip to main content

View Diary: Ralph's Gift (380 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  The other side. (4.00)
    I think both Bush and Kerry were right when they talked about the need for healing in America, and the need to come together as a people. And the Left should take great advantage of this, and try to reach out, as much as possible. And if we are reproached, we should turn the other cheek.

    But we should not be silent--rather, we should be vocal in our support for the traditional and common American values that we should all espouse and share. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; equality, freedom, compassion--the list goes on and on. It is a simple choice, a choice between love and hate.

    Jesus did not say "Hate thy neighbor". Jesus didn't even say "Hate thy gay neighbor", or "Hate thy Republican neighbor". He said "Love thy neighbor". And we need to remind everyone of those values--values of unity, and not of intolerance.

    So please, "Don't Be A Sucker". I don't want to see fascism in my lifetime, and neither do you.

    •  The fact is (none)
      we a rebeing caricatured and demonized.  We have to caricature them back to create an alternate narrative, and to create awareness for the extremism that has teken over the R party.

      We're not Jesus.  We're a political party.  If your goal is to get crucified, then turn the other cheek.  If you want to make a difference in the lives of working people, restore civil liberties and justice at home and to our foreign policy, then be as cunning as a fox while pure of heart.

      •  Is it now. (none)
        We are being caricatured and demonized; we need to clearly demonstrate how false that caricature actually is. Caricaturing them back will not do that, it will do the opposite. Let them caricature themselves; we will clearly show to the vast majority of Americans who we really are, and why they should stand with us.

        John Kerry won the endorsement war, gaining endorsements from prominent conservative newspapers and figures. And each time, these self-same figures were torn down by the most far-right and radical segment of the Republican party, calling them RINOs and traitors and worse. We need to take those people in, and show them that we will listen to their concerns instead of resorting to childish name calling and reprehensible character assassination.

        Jesus won by being crucified. Because the people saw it, and saw that it was wrong. How could you crucify such a great man, without being evil yourselves. That's what this is about. We need to show people the inner goodness of our goals and our agenda, the pureness of our intent. And when we are attacked for doing so, it will be clear to them which side they belong on.

        You know who is cunning as a fox while pure of heart? Ghandi. Martin Luther King. Barack Obama. They knew that hate was not the answer. We need to as well.

        •  rhetorical non-violence (none)
          will maintain us as a pemanent minority.  I agree, we need to seize the moral high ground, but you also have to have someone else on your side who is willing and more than able to break some political kneecaps.  That's human nature.

          This is not India under the Brits, nor is it South Africa under apartheid.  Your idelaism is admirable, but your historical analogies are misapplied.  To believers, Jesus' victory was not temporal but spiritual  His followers, under Constantine, were anything but non-violent.  They were ruthless and murderous.

          We won't be murderous, but we will be figuratively violent in attacking their frames and failures is were are going to be effective in restoring justice, equality and civil rights.

          The Bhagavad Gita has a wonderful tale in it of, I think it was Arvedui, who had great misgivings in going to war.  Go toi war, the gods told him, for it is the natural order, and all is well in the end.  The tale captures something essential about human nature:  we are violent animals.  That's not all we are, but to deny the aggression in human nature is folloy, and self-deceit.  So let us use our aggression to good ends.  This culture war is real, though not a physical war, in the bodily violent sense at least not domestically).  But we cannot be afraid to fight in order to win.

          In fact, it is precisely the Democrat's squeemishness with this elemental part of human nature that leads many Americans to instinctively distrust us.  Bush is a simple minded, ruthless sonofabitch.  And that's why his followers like him, and trust him with their security.  And that in part is why the gay marriage issue is not completely about man-on-man sex, but about the stereotype of the Deomcratic party as unmanned, and unable to be aggressive in the service of security.

          I admire your spirit.  But you are badly mistaken in your political approach.

          "Make each day your masterpiece." -- John Wooden

          by Pachacutec on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 07:10:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Screw that (none)
      I am not going to sit down and take it while America is hammered into the ground by wingnuts, lunatics, and fascists.

      The future of this country is at stake. And for the future of the country, we need to go right back to war.

      No turning cheeks. No quarter. No reconciliation. No forgiveness. We keep going until we're in power and then keep going again until we've restored our place in the world.

      •  I understand your frustration. (none)
        Do not "sit down and take it"; fight. But be smart about it, man. Calling them names will just validate their lies about you.

        We will keep going, and we will restore our place in the world. We won't do that through hatred. I didn't say forgive or forget--I said, kill them with kindness.

        •  If I could give you a "5" (4.00)
          I would.

          You're exactly right.  The particular group of Christians that voted for Bush is a minority, but if we go on the attack, we risk offending mainline Christians (which includes me), and cementing the Republicans as the party of God.

          Once upon a time, the majority of Christians in this  country were convinced that the Democratic message was the message closest to their own beliefs.  It still is.  Where we have failed is in how we have worded and delivered our message.

          If the Republicans have been allowed to gain a foothold within religious groups, it's our fault.  We have not fought hard enough to keep our grip.  And to do so, I don't believe we have to bend one plank of our platform.  We just have to show them that our platform is the platform best suited to reach Christian goals.

          For those ready to write these groups off as an "American Taliban": You think these evangelicals don't care about the poor?  They do.  You think they like war?  They don't.  You think they're stupid?  They're not.

          However they are ignorant, ignorant of how the Democratic message and the Christian message are in tremendous harmony.  And there is no one to blame for that but the Democrats.

          •  i posted higher up in this thread (none)
            but will repeat here. it's important to differentiate christians who act in an unchristian fashion from christians who do their best to practice christian love and tolerance. let's please not assume all evangelicals and fundamentalists are the same. there are some who are driven more by bigotry and meanness than by the urge to live by jesus' injunction to "love they neighbor as thyself."

            just as we can say neo-con, moderate republican, libertarian, liberal democrat, moderate democrat, rightwing democrat (i don't know what else to call zell miller), we can differentiate between christians who embrace the doctrine of love and tolerance and "debased christians" who act as though they believe more in sadistic punishment than in redemption.

            cloaking oneself in the mantle of christianity does not mean other christians have to defend one. doesn't it say somewhere in the bible "by their acts shall ye judge them"? by their acts. not by what they call themselves or by the invocations behind which they try to hide. if your actions are base and you invoke christ to justify them, there's no question in my mind you deserve to be called a debased christian.

            nope, i'm not a christian of any sect. but i was taught that jesus set the bar pretty high for love and forgiveness. if that's not what you're aspiring to as a christian, maybe you took a wrong turn somewhere.

            We get a lot of advice. We tend to listen when somebody's won something. - Joe Lockhart

            by yankeedoodler on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 06:33:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  amen to that (none)
              It's important not to see religious people as a monolithic group, but rather to identify which segment of that group is unreachable, and adjust the way we present our values to the rest of the group.  This is not to say that we abandon our core principles as Democrats (this, of course, requires determining what those core principles actually are), and present them in a short, simply-worded way.  Oh, and it's important that we don't just start taking the message to the people 18 months before the election.  The message has to be pushed constantly, starting now.  Did Republicans stop pushing their message when they were completely out of power between '92 and '94?  No, they pushed it harder than ever.
      •  I'm afraid you're right (none)
        Turning the other cheek doesn't work.  Kerry took the high road, and now everyone's saying it was a mistake.  He should have used the convention to bash the hell out of Bush.  

        Negative politics works.  You cannot fight it by turning other cheek.  Not least because it makes you look weak - something a political party cannot afford during wartime.

        "We share half our genes with the banana. This is a fact more evident in some of my acquaintances than others." - Robert Mays

        by randym77 on Fri Nov 05, 2004 at 05:18:02 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site