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View Diary: Ralph's Gift (380 comments)

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  •  I have always believed.. (none)
    ...that forcing an argument to its illogical extreme is a wonderful way of exposing its flaws.
    •  As a Catholic. . . (none)
      I believe abortion is morally wrong. It just isn't the state's G-d D-mn business.

      But flushing dozens of fertilized eggs to allow in vitro bothers me far, far more than letting some poor 17 year old who made a mistake avoid the back alley coathanger abortionist.  

      •  Does the catholic church agree with you? (none)
        They don't even believe in condoms.
        •  Condoms ain't murder. . . (none)
          The priest said, "Please no birth control." He looked at the floor when he said it.

          Then he looked us in the eyes. "But if you must, read about HOW the Pill works."

          There's a difference.

      •  Egg flushing (none)
        I urge you to check out Peter Singer's book "The President of Good and Evil:  Questioning the Ethics of George W. Bush," particularly Chapter 3 on "The Culture of Life" in the first section titled "Life Before Birth."  As he points out there, what you call the "flushing" of fertilized eggs happens millions of times every year in the US.  "They die," he says, "as part of a natural process that has, as far as we know, been going on as long as there have been human beings.  Some scientists estimate that for every embryo that becomes a child, four fertilized eggs fail to make it.  Others think that the ratio is closer to one lost fertilized egg for every child born.  Even on the lower estimate, more than three million embryos die annually in the United States from natural causes." (p. 39)  Then he asks the pertinent question:  "Should we feel that this loss of embryos is a terrible thing, a kind of ongoing holocaust?  If each human embryo is 'something precious to be protected' [as G.W. Bush says and probably congruent with papal pronouncements], then surely that is how we should feel."  At the very least, Singer's discussion illuminates the real complexity of this issue and brings out its political character and structure.
        •  complex, but not contradictory? (none)
          Wouldn't "natural causes" be God's work/judgement, but humans choosing to abort/flush is wrongly & evilly co-opting the work of God.  Only God can judge, especially life & death, that kind of thing?

          Then there's the death penalty which Bush loves...

        •  I dunno about that logic (none)
          Fertilized eggs and/or embryos are often spontaneously aborted.... so, induced abortion is therefore okay.  People who have been born often die of natural causes.  By the logic above, it would also be okay to kill them.

          Or did I miss something?

    •  But... (none)
      Do you think that people would actually see that? I would be inclined to think that many people would not see the flaws and only see the proposals.

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