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View Diary: Pub Hlth Officials Lie about Fluoridation Safety (65 comments)

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  •  Floride is a toxin (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kevskos

    more dangerous than lead yet we drink it every day and they have duped us into thinking it's good for our teeth.

    Chuck Norris is hiding in my poo

    by dssv12 on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 06:11:00 AM PDT

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    •  Fluoride involves a huge spectrum, (4+ / 0-)

      chemically, much like many other substances or drugs.

      Don't take anyone seriously that says one thing and does another--that's the worst sin of all...Claire McCaskill

      by begone on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 06:19:00 AM PDT

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    •  They who? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      begone, Prognosticator, ER Doc

      And why?  And what have been the documented effects of decades of water fluoridation on large populations?  Surely decades of exposure to this serious toxin must have produced documented ill effects (and by 'documented' I mean scientifically studied and published peer reviewed studies).

      "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

      by Triscula on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 06:19:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The science exists (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Prognosticator, dssv12

        there are many documented studies showing fluoride's harmful effects See http://www.FluorideAction.Net/...

        I would like you to find one study that shows fluoridation is safe.

        If you look at the first experimental study to "prove" fluoridation has no ill health effects - the Kingston/Newburgh study started in 1945 - you'll find it actually proved the opposite.

        A write up is here:
        http://fluoridedangers.blogspot.com/...

        Bone defects, anemia and earlier female menstruation occur more often in children dosed with sodium fluoride-laced drinking water, according to an unprecedented human cavity-prevention experiment conducted upon the population of Newburgh, New York, reported in the March 1956 Journal of the American Dental Association. This is the first research into ingested fluoride's effects to the body and not just the teeth.

        Children sick two weeks before examination were excluded effectively eliminating the very children who would be experiencing adverse health effects.

        Adults were not even part of the experiment.

        Kidney and brain effects weren't even thought of let alone factored into the possible side effects.

        Fluoridation 101 http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof News Releases http://tinyurl.com/6kqtu

        by nyscof on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 06:25:40 AM PDT

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        •  Fluoride (4+ / 0-)

          It's been in our drinking water for decades now.  If it's so detrimental to health wouldn't we be seeing evidence of the serious harmful effects all around us?  Wouldn't we simply be able to look at rates of bone defects and anemia among populations and compare them to earlier data, prior to fluoridation to get a hint that there's a problem that needs more detailed study?

          (Comparing it to lead exposure, for example, we've been able to learn a lot from statistical data among populations with high exposure prior to mandated unleaded gasoline.  We already knew that lead was dangerous but we've been able to examine the impact on large population groups.)

          And if it IS so obviously harmful what interest does "the man" have in continuing to put it in our water supply and/or covering up the supposedly disastrous health consequences of its use?

          "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

          by Triscula on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 06:52:27 AM PDT

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          •  especially since "the man" (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            begone, Triscula, ER Doc

            uses the same tap.

            If you think you're too small to be effective, you've never been in the dark with a mosquito.

            by marykk on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 06:55:12 AM PDT

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          •  Kidney Damage now Evident (0+ / 0-)

            In 2008, the National Kidney Foundation dropped its fluoridation support replacing it with this caution: "Individuals with CKD  [Chronic Kidney Disease] should be notified of the potential risk of fluoride exposure."

            In 2006, the National Research Council reports,  "Early water fluoridation studies did not carefully assess changes in renal [kidney] function...Several investigators have shown that patients with impaired renal function, or on hemodialysis, tend to accumulate fluoride much more quickly than normal."

            There is no dispute between those for and against fluoridation that too much fluoride damages bones. A malfunctioning kidney can allow of toxic fluoride build up in bones causing them to weaken and break - a common occurrence in kidney patients.  It doesn't matter how little fluoride is in the water. If the kidneys don't filter it out, your bones are doomed.

            Kidney disease and bone damage is on the rise - is it connected to fluoridation - no one has done those stories.  Who would fund them?  The government agencies who support fluoridation?  I think not.  The companies who profit from fluoride such as Proctor & Gamble.  Yeah, right.

            While posters here may defend fluoridation, the American Dental Association Fluoridation Facts booklet says this, "decreased fluoride removal may occur among persons with severely impaired kidney function who may not be on kidney dialysis."

            Fluoride is neither a nutrient nor required for healthy teeth.  It was a huge mistake to put it in water supplies in the first place.  No human or animal is, or ever was, fluoride deficient.

            Fluoridation 101 http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof News Releases http://tinyurl.com/6kqtu

            by nyscof on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 07:13:11 AM PDT

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            •  asdf (3+ / 0-)

              Kidney disease and bone damage is on the rise - is it connected to fluoridation - no one has done those stories.

              Where is kidney disease and 'bone damage' on the rise?  Among what population groups?  What are the other possible lifestyle or environmental factors that could have contributed to this supposed rise.  What specific 'bone damage' are you refering to?  And, considering the massive numbers of people who have had regular fluoride exposure from birth to old age, wouldn't we be seeing some pretty significant levels of disease in the population?  Comparative studies would offer significant data, I would think.  My point here is, if fluoridation is as dangerous as you portray it to be, there should be significant evidence of those dangers all around us.  We have a HUGE group of people with a lifetime of exposure to look at.  So where's the data to support the fearmongering?

              By the way, your choice to try to steer the general health risks discussion into the issue of risks for certain people with a specific health problem is a dodge that doesn't impress me much.

              "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

              by Triscula on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 07:29:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Now Impossible (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Prognosticator

                Because fluoridatedwater is used to make foods and beverages and because fluoride containing pesticide residues remain on foods, it's impossible to consume a fluoride free diet.  70% of US water supplies are fluoridated.  Almost everyone uses fluoridated toothpaste.

                We have no control group.

                There are huge knowledge gaps in the fluoridation literature about safety that's acknowledged by the same groups that promote fluoridation.

                This is where logic and common sense should dictate.

                The Centers for Disease Control now concedes that fluoride's beneficial effects are topical and that fluoride ingestion does not reduce tooth decay.  However, the CDC reports that up to 48% of school children sport fluoride overdose symptoms - dental fluorosis  - white spotted, yellow, brown and/or pitted enamel.

                At the same time we have a cavity epidemic.  The populations with the most and more severe cavities and the most dental fluorosis are black Americans.

                New York State Department of Health statistics show that children in highly fluoridated NYS counties do not necessarily have the best rates of tooth decay and that fluoridation has not leveled out tooth decay between the haves and have-nots.

                Similar results are found when you compare highly fluoridated states

                The truth is that diet and dental care, both personal and professional, is the only protection against tooth decay.  Fluoride is just another unnecessary drug that is prescribed and administered in the most haphazard ways

                Fluoridation 101 http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof News Releases http://tinyurl.com/6kqtu

                by nyscof on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 07:40:32 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  That's a pretty big number (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ER Doc, eyesoars

                  However, the CDC reports that up to 48% of school children sport fluoride overdose symptoms - dental fluorosis  - white spotted, yellow, brown and/or pitted enamel.

                  I actually live with a couple of school children and I work with school aged children.  I spend loads of time with other parents of school aged kids too.  From this assertion above nearly half of those kids I come in contact with have symptoms of dental fluorosis.  Is there some reason why your comment is the only place that I have ever seen such an assertion?  Some reason why none of the parents I've discussed children's health and dental care with have ever mentioned that their kids are suffering from this condition?  48% is huge.  But I seen zero evidence that dental fluorosis is a serious problem among school children.  Where are the dentists on this issue?  If 48% of school aged patients are suffering from this condition I think MY OWN kids' dentist would have mentioned the problem to me.  

                  "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

                  by Triscula on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 08:40:10 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Big & Correct (0+ / 0-)

                    Look at the CDC's chart here:

                    http://www.cdc.gov/...

                    You'll see that about 52% of children aged 12-15 are UNaffected by fluorosis, leaving 48% affected - up to 4% severely

                    I don't know why the CDC plays down this huge number.

                    I also can't tell you why your dentists doesn't know about this.

                    You can read an article by a dentist in the NYS Dental Journal which says that fluorosis is rising and harming children's self-esteem

                    "Why Do I Have White Spots on My Front Teeth," by Elvir Dincer,
                    DDS, New York State Dental Journal, January 2008, Page 58 Volume 74,
                    Number 1
                    http://www.nysdental.org/...

                    Fluoridation 101 http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof News Releases http://tinyurl.com/6kqtu

                    by nyscof on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 08:54:51 AM PDT

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            •  We are sicker now (0+ / 0-)

              then we've ever been, with more cancers and diseases being named every single day, and we are taking more medicines then ever before.  I find that strange.

              Looking at what we eat, what food additives we take in, what chemicals we ingest is a good way to figure out why we are chronically sick. Because it would be devastating to the companies providing these chemicals, it's no surprise that they don't want these studies to be conducted, let alone made public.

              And I'm sure no one here thinks that the EPA or the FDA are above being bought and paid like the rest of the gov't agencies.

              Chuck Norris is hiding in my poo

              by dssv12 on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 09:37:59 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  "We are sicker now than we've ever been"? n/t (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Triscula, ER Doc

                "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." -Flannery O'Connor

                by Meteor Blades on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 09:45:01 AM PDT

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                •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

                  yes we are.  We have more diseases and more prescriptions.  And the more prescriptions we take, the more we need to take more to balance the side-effects caused by those prescriptions.

                  And then there's the fact that those prescriptions are only there to treat the symptoms, not the disease.  AIDS hasn't been contained yet, we are suffering more and more to cancers and yet you don't see that we are sicker than ever before?

                  How do you not see this?

                  cherry pick this!

                  by dssv12 on Fri Mar 20, 2009 at 10:08:20 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  EPA, FDA, GOV'T (0+ / 0-)

        Who do you think 'they' are?  Da Man?  lol

        Chuck Norris is hiding in my poo

        by dssv12 on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 06:31:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Here's some info (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Prognosticator

      to back up my 'toxin' claim:

      The fluoridation of public water is something that has been highly debated for decades -- and yet the practice continues today, despite the growing body of evidence showing that fluoridation causes untold human suffering and disease. Some of the research presented at the conference showed, for example, that fluoridation damages the brain, increases levels of lead in children's blood and therefore leads to behavioral disorders and brain damage. It also showed that humans are accumulating fluoride in their bones, that fluoride's toxicity is systemic in the human body, and that the current safe drinking water standards for fluoride were fraudulently authored by officials at the Environmental Protection Agency who were pressured.

      Full Article Here:
      Fluoride conference reveals fraudulent science behind mass fluoridation; fluoride policy is a public fraud

      Chuck Norris is hiding in my poo

      by dssv12 on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 06:28:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Read your toothpaste warning (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        marykk

        label telling you to call Poison Control if swallowed.  Yes, swallowing toothpaste is a poison, yet we put it in our mouth every day.  

        Chuck Norris is hiding in my poo

        by dssv12 on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 06:34:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And somehow.. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          begone, Elvis meets Nixon, ER Doc, marykk

          we're still alive and fairly healthy.  Weird, eh?

          "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Gandhi

          by Triscula on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 06:53:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Depends on who "we" are (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dssv12

            The infant mortality rate in the US is dismal.  The US is way behind many other countries - even some third world countries.

            Autism affects 1 in 150 children.  

            We don't expect the younger generation to be healthier and live as long as their parents.

            There is more diabetes, cancer, kidney disease, arthritis, than ever.

            Oral health disparities exist despite 60 years of fluoridation.  At least two children in America have died from untreated tooth decay because 80% of dentists refuse Medicaid patients and 108 million Americans lack dental insurance.

            With its deep pockets filled with corporate cash, organized dentistry lobbies hard against any viable group infringing on its lucrative monopoly. Instead they get people to believe that fluoridation will solve this problem

            Fluoridation 101 http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof News Releases http://tinyurl.com/6kqtu

            by nyscof on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 07:21:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  OK (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Elvis meets Nixon, ER Doc

              The infant mortality rate in the US is dismal

              Waiting for the evidence that "fluoride poisoning" is to blame.  Or are all deaths in the U.S. actually due to toothpaste?

              Perhaps we'd all live forever if not for...fluoride.

              •  show me your evidence (0+ / 0-)

                My point is that you can't show me that fluoridation is safe

                Fluoridation 101 http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof News Releases http://tinyurl.com/6kqtu

                by nyscof on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 07:41:51 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Inverted logic (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ER Doc

                  You're implying that infant mortality is "dismal" in the U.S. because of fluoridation.  The burden of proof is on you to back up your assertion.  It is NOT on anyone else to prove you wrong.

                  •  Fluoride linked to Cancer (0+ / 0-)

                    No, someone said if fluoridation was so bad, why aren't people getting sick.  I'm showing that loads of people are getting sick and depressed but our government won't fund studies to show whether fluoridation is to blame and when it is found harmful, they ignore the evidence just like you do.

                    Decades ago Burt/Yiamouyiannis did a study that showed that the cancer death rate was higher in newly fluoridated cities.  

                    They were wrongly criticized for not adjusting for confounding factors - which they actually did do.  When the same detractors were brought to court and sworn to tell the truth, they could not negate the Burt/Yiamouyiannis cancer studes.  

                    As a result of the B/Y studies, Congressional hearings were conducted and a cancer/rodent study was commissioned.  And yes they found more cancer in the fluoridated rats and mice

                    Fluoridation is linked to bone cancer
                    (osteosarcoma) in young boys, as reported in  Harvard's peer-reviewed
                    journal, "Cancer Causes and Control."

                    Many other studies link fluoride to cancer. Examples:

                    1954 Taylor reports more tumors and shorter lifespan in fluoride
                    treated mice.

                    1956 Landmark 10-year Newburgh/Kingston fluoridation study shows more
                    cortical bone defects (a suspected precursor to osteosarcoma)  in
                    children drinking fluoridated water

                    1977  National Academy of Sciences expresses concern about possible
                    water fluoridation/osteosarcoma link based on the Newburgh /Kingston
                    cortical bone defect evidence.

                    1990 Procter & Gamble (P&G) makes public a 1981-1983 study showing more
                    bone tumors in fluoride-treated rats but claims they were not
                    statistically significant. Another P&G study finds a significant
                    increase in benign bone tumors in fluoride treated mice.

                    1992 New Jersey Department of Health study shows osteosarcoma rates
                    higher among young males in fluoridated vs unfluoridated regions of New
                    Jersey (6) - report's title changed to obscure connection to
                    fluoridation.

                    2006 NRC Panel finds cancer/fluoride link plausible

                    Fluoridation 101 http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof News Releases http://tinyurl.com/6kqtu

                    by nyscof on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 08:45:38 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Like most things, it's a matter of dose . . . . (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          begone, Elvis meets Nixon, ER Doc

          Water is a poison if ingested over a period of several to many hours at an average rate of 17 mL/min.

          Similarly, selenium is quite toxic, but a few years ago it was discovered to be absolutely essential for human health as part of the "21st amino acid".

          Basically, you die with either too much or too little .  .   .  (but strangely enough, most people do manage to somehow survive in the middling safety zone).

          •  Small doses toxic to some (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            dssv12

            Even small doses of fluoride is harmful to kidney patients whose diseased kidneys cannot filter out the fluoride.

            Fluoride is also harmful to the thyroid in any amount.

            From 1 - 5% of the population is allergic to or intolerant of fluoride - no matter how low the concentration in water.

            Fluoridation 101 http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof News Releases http://tinyurl.com/6kqtu

            by nyscof on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 07:22:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Uh-huh. I am definitely going to trust ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Triscula

        ...a source that also claims - without a shred of evidence - that the recent school shooting in Germany was the consequence of psychiatric medication.

        "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." -Flannery O'Connor

        by Meteor Blades on Sat Mar 14, 2009 at 09:49:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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