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View Diary: Timothy McVeigh, the Radical Right and Glenn Beck (391 comments)

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  •  in a sane world (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    fox would have had their licenses pulled long ago.

    Yes, I am psychic...or was that psycho? I always forget which.

    by Farradin on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 06:50:41 PM PDT

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    •  Why do you hate the Constitution? (0+ / 0-)

      No license for cable, besides,the 1st Amendment bars the FCC from yanking licensers for political viewpoint.

      The Fear Machine has been turned up to eight.

      by ben masel on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 06:58:42 PM PDT

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      •  perhaps that needs to be revisted then? (0+ / 0-)

        Perhaps there should be some sort of limits placed on some speech? Perhaps your strict, absolutist reading of the 1st amendment it counter indicated by human nature? If certain propaganda or psychological manipulation really can mold human behavior at the societal level, as we saw in Rwanda, and if there are people who would use that technology to overthrow our constitution and install a fascist dictatorship, Then it seems to me represents and existential threat. One that we have every right to deal with. Perhaps something in line with Canada's approach?

        "Unless you can fake sincerity, you'll get nowhere in this business."

        by MnplsLiberal on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 07:08:51 PM PDT

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        •  The Canadian Courts, (0+ / 0-)

          while not explicitly overturning their racial incitement laws, have been tossing every case brought under them.

          Myself, I'll fight any attempt to do away with the 1st Amendment. I doubt you'd get 3/4ths of State Legislatures to go along.

          The Fear Machine has been turned up to eight.

          by ben masel on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 07:22:13 PM PDT

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          •  Ok then.. what next? (0+ / 0-)

            Sit back and take it like the Hutu's did? That genocide was directly fueled by radio hate speech. The Nazi genocide was fueled by a generation of hate speech from the German pulpits (their equivalent of mass media for the time). Pastors led their congregations on pogroms to burn down synagogues.

            I can see no reason why today's hate speech on radio and on cable news should not have the same effect. Humans can be affected and manipulated by using the techniques of mass marketing and propaganda. If it really comes down to a choice between 17th century notions of free speech and the destruction of our civilization I know which I would choose.

            I don't know. I'm just trying to figure this out.

            "Unless you can fake sincerity, you'll get nowhere in this business."

            by MnplsLiberal on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 07:38:34 PM PDT

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        •  no. the way to go about this is... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mataliandy, Farradin

          ...through FCC regulation that breaks up media monopolies and cartels, and restores local ownership and diversity on the airwaves.  

          That will have the effect of creating enough competing speech (much of which will be moderate and progressive) that Fox will end up losing most of its audience.  

          The remedy for bad speech is more and better speech.

    •  I don't watch Fox or listen to Limbaugh and (0+ / 0-)

      I was there, at the birth of the so-called Republican Revolution of 1994.  

      It's called free speech.  And I'm also free to ignore it.  

      I actually was in contact with Rove in 1994, though I didn't know how twisted he really was.  I broke bread, more tha once with John Boehner (his sister lived in Chicago, in the IL5, so he visited often, and I also knew Scanlon of the Scanlon-Abramhoff scandal.

      In 1994, I had a couple of policy breakfasts with Limbaugh's producer at the time, Nick Africano.

      I'm a graduate of Morton Blackwell's "Leadership Institute".  

      I listen to NPR.  I watch PBS.  In total, I have probably heard less than ONE HOUR's COMBINED rant from Rush and Fox.  Seriously. Right now I have PBS's "Little Dorrit" by Dickens on TV's "Masterpiece Classic".

      Timothy McVeigh was criminally insane.  He was a madman who killed innocents.

      If you recall, immediately after the bombing, Islamic extremists were blamed.  I had several friends who found themselves rounded up, simply because they were Moslems.  One of them, an Egyptian who was an engineering student and a friend of Louis Farrakhan, was detained at O'Hare.

      I find this diary and this diarist to be histrionic.

      I wish Dana Houle would find something interesting, enlightening, or entertaining to write.  I think I get where he's coming from, I just don't agree with him.

      I actually know RWingers and most of them are simply ladies who do brunches and guys who do fish-frys in Veteran's Halls when the ladies aren't playing BINGO.

      There might be a handful of gays at bingo, but there's no weed to be found.  And, no books about guns, vampires, and the NWO.

      BTW, I do belong to the Council on Foreign Affairs, which has changed in Chicago to the Chicago Council on Global Affairs.  Yeah, masters of the universe and all that, lots of people handing out resumes, looking for a job, like everyone else.  

      "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle

      by Aidos on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 07:44:38 PM PDT

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      •  I Pretty Much Made Sense... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        buckeyekarl, wader, keener

        ...of almost none of that, other than you've done something or other and you mistakenly think Timothy McVeigh was "criminally insane" (which he was not, which is why his execution was allowed to go forth) and that you wrote a whole lot of words about you not liking what I write.  

        "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

        by Dana Houle on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 07:53:00 PM PDT

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      •  I was part of that style of conservative culture (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dana Houle

        in the late 70s/early 80s.

        It wasn't represented by the radical groups Dana shone light upon in this diary, though it does turn out that contemporary "conservative" (which is actually far-right, now - conservative values being swamped in the media by extreme sensationalism) messages do happen to parrot the individualist, paranoid militia types who've been recruiting for decades in some quarters.  Beck being an obvious example.

        Because the "conservative" messages are almost solely based on the odd necessity for division, backed by abstract, unsupportable rationale and implicit fear-mongering, at best.

        Our more mainstream conservative political and cultural experiences don't negate the reporting Dana offers here, nor does it incriminate mainstream conservatives.

        However, it does reasonably note that current cultural influences between so-called conservatives and rugged extremists are appearing to feed each other in unhealthy ways.  With some of this nonsense getting a national pulpit through a well-funded fourth estate entity.  This is context being provided for our consideration.

        The best answers to this data seems a consistent push to keep extremely divisive views marginalized to the shadows of personal thought, with associated values consistently offered/judged as nothing more than ridiculous paranoia, IMHO.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Sun Apr 12, 2009 at 08:54:57 PM PDT

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