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View Diary: Why Dean can win without the South (321 comments)

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  •  Re: Why Dean can win without the South (none)
    Blah blah blah...

    Man, if there's one thing you learn by blogging, it's that people will create all sorts of strawmen arguments based on what they assume you mean, rather than by the words written.

    So you get shit like this:

    Kos seems to have just conceded that Dean will have a difficult time in the red states.
    Even though I wrote this:
    Which leaves one argument on the table -- that abandoning the South could doom Democrats in Senate, House and local races. Which would be a concern if either Dean or Clark were going to abandon the South. But neither will. Clark has geography (which may or may not help -- witness Gore). Dean has his grassroots army.
    No one is abandoning the South.

    The post just attempts to debunk the notion that the South is the be-all, end-all of a candidate's electoral chances.

    Is anyone wringing their hands over Bush's troubles in New England? What about the West Coast? So why the obsession amongst Democrats about the South. It's the GOP's base. It's likely to go to them. We can try and pick away a couple of states at the margins, but the real battles will be fought elsewhere.

    We can still win BIG without taking a single southern state. Heck, turning Arizona, Ohio and Missouri gives us a healthy 301 EVs.

    •  ROFLMAO (none)
      Not at your rebuttal, which I think is as solid as they come, but that I was about to rate it a 4.

      BTW, OT to this thread, but props for the USA Today mentions (even though the article was laughable on numerous points).

      Keep up the hard work and let us know down the road about the lefty zine you mentioned and the new March project as it develops.

      cheers,

      Mitch Gore

      No one will change America for you. You must work to make it happen.

      by Lestatdelc on Wed Dec 31, 2003 at 07:58:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Re: Why Dean can win without the South (none)
      Is anyone wringing their hands over Bush's troubles in New England? What about the West Coast? So why the obsession amongst Democrats about the South.

      THANK YOU!!!  Very, very well said.

    •  Re: Why Dean can win without the South (2.00)
      Kos seems to have just conceded that Dean will have a difficult time in the red states.

      "seems"

      How is that anything other than an honest effort to understand your post?  If what you meant to say was so easily lost then maybe you should be looking in the mirror instead of pointing and others and saying that what they are saying is "shit."  

      Markos, your frequently angry personal writing style unfortunately furthers the meme that Dean and his followers are juvenile, petty and irrational.  I urge you to take a long look at who is agreeing with you and who isn't.  I think that if you do that you will find that the ones cheering you on are the same ones who agreed with you to start with and that you aren't being an effective evangelist for your cause.  Which is a shame because you make lots of good points when you are less angry and more rational.  Please step out of the echo chamber for a while.

      Congrats on the high visitor/user numbers.

      Happy New Year,

      Mike

    •  Re: Why Dean can win without the South (none)
      Talk about strawmen arguments.  Who's misquoting who?

      I said that you were conceding that Dean would have a hard time in the South.  (Your post is called "Why Dean can win without the South", not "Why Clark can win without the South").

      You imply that I said that you said that Dean would be abandoning the South.  

      My point was NOT about Dean's strategy during the election!  

      My point was that if you had a candidate who was strong in the south, you would never start thinking of ways of winning without it, and we can't select a candidate with all kinds of weaknesses and then come up with complex scenarios that counteract those weaknesses if a candidate with many fewer weaknesses is available.

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