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View Diary: Why Dean can win without the South (321 comments)

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  •  Re: Dean v. Clark (none)
    And by the way scoop.

    Lying doesnt win you points... it exposes you as a fraud. Ask awol he knows.

    •  Re: Dean v. Clark (none)
      Lying?  Who was lying?  A person has a different perspective than yours and it is lying?  In TN where Lara/scoop lives that is the way it is.  And seems that way in most other places.  I am in AR and we feel that way here too.  I feel that Dean's appeal here is very narrow.  Definitely not up to challenging Bush at all.
      •  Re: Dean v. Clark (none)
        Sure ill give you a point by point breakdown:

        "Actually, we do see him as snobbish and with a total lack of understanding of our values."

        Claiming to speak for all or even a majority of southerners.. or even a majority of southern democrats? Evidence? thought not.

        "I keep hearing all your thoughts, Dean fans, but, seriously, ask ANY person on the street down here, whether they keep up with politics or not, who's going to be running against Bush and they say, "Clark.""

        Hi .. my name is Charles. Who is going to end up runnign against Bush? His name is Howard Dean.
        ... hmmm guess that pretty much exposes what he said as an untruth.

         No "official" polling, no Zogby spinning and no presumptive questioning. They just see it as a Clark v. Bush race down here."

        So lets see. The polls show just the opposite. I as a fellow southerner should be a tiny bit of evidence showing it to be untrue.

        Again. Purposefully representing something that is on its face untrue is called Lying. I realise thats become very politically incorrect to note of course.

        I have NO problem with Clark supporters. Heck i hope your candidate does great and ill damn well vote for him if he wins the nomination and if he doesnt ill be cheerleading for him to get the VP spot. But deciet to attain an end is immoral. Any means to an end is wrong.

        •  Re: Dean v. Clark (none)
          Obviously Dean has some supporters in the south.  But my experience is not much where I live.  He did get a small bump after the Gore endorsement but it seems to be ebbing away.  The experience most of us where I am in northeast AR have with Dean is that just listening to him sets our teeth on edge.  He does excite the occasional anti-war person but there aren't a lot of them here.  

          You're gonna have to reconcile yourself to the possibility that Lara/scoop is talking about what she is seeing on the ground in and around Knoxville, TN and in her community of friends across the south and that she is not lying.  Slandering her doesn't disprove her perspective.

    •  Re: Dean v. Clark (none)
      Excuse me, but what exactly am I lying about? I live in Knoxville, TN. Was born and raised here. I have lived in Huntsville, AL and Anderson, SC, as well. In fact, the only place I've lived outside of the South was in Seymour, IN. and I was six years old at the time, so I couldn't tell you what the politics of that place was. In my community and in communities I visit, there are Clark stickers and signs and Bush stickers and signs - and that's it. Sure, you might see a rogue Gore bumper sticker still stuck on a car, but that's left over from 2000. But, to prove to you that, at least my friends and neighbors, don't agree with your assessment, the string of positive Clark articles in LOCAL (read: more in touch with their communities than national newspapers), I'll give you some links: http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/politics/article/0,1406,KNS_356_2542064,00.html http://www.tennessean.com/opinion/columnists/lewis/archives/04/01/44914136.shtml?Element_ID=44914136 http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=30950
      •  Re: Dean v. Clark (none)
        You asked for it...

        As a Southern, I disagree with your assessment of our assessment of Dean. Actually, we do see him as snobbish and with a total lack of understanding of our values.

        Using the imperial WE implies you speak for southerners. You dont obviously. Since this Southerner thinks just the opposite and along with others has said so repeatedly. And of course there are those silly poll thingies...

        I keep hearing all your thoughts, Dean fans, but, seriously, ask ANY person on the street down here, whether they keep up with politics or not, who's going to be running against Bush and they say, "Clark."

        No they dont.

        No "official" polling, no Zogby spinning and no presumptive questioning. They just see it as a Clark v. Bush race down here

        Hmm.. so you claim "they" see it as Clark vs Bush.. despite the polls showing thats flat out untrue. By the  way... southerner here.. huge Dean supporter. Did i mention that?

        And, it's not Clark's ego: he's in it be the nominee. I think the person with the ego problem is the good doctor.

        Er Dean has an ego problem?
        Dean chanting to speechgoers : "YOU have the power. YOU have hte power".. why that egotistical.....

        If you dont think both Generals and Politicians are fashioned of ego and dreams ...


        If you need Clark so much to win all these states, why don't you just vote for him as the nominee?

        Dean and Clark overlap on a lot of issues. Clark trumps Dean because he wore a uniform. Dean trumps clark on his gun control position. We need Clark .. and Dean.. and every single democrat alive to pick up any southern seats or states.

        By the way... Im  not just a Dean supporter. Im also a Clark supporter. And to take our democracy back we need every democrat on board. Not slash and burn attacks that alienate Dean supporters from Clark because extremist supporters will take their ball and go home if we dont do what they want.

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