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View Diary: Putting Out the Fox “Fire” on Immigration (31 comments)

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  •  That's a labor issue ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dexter

    ... and can be solved by strengthening our labor laws and giving the millions who are already working here and contributing to our economy a path to citizenship.

    Duke1676 puts it well in his diary on a progressive plan for immigration reform:

    Many Democrats, and particularly Progressives, look at increasing the penalties for hiring undocumented workers as a panacea for solving the "immigration crisis".  This of course stems from a natural distrust of Corporate America by working people ....and rightfully so. Many corporations benefit greatly from our current ineffective immigration system. It allows for abuses and exploitation of workers both immigrant and native–born.

    But once again we need to look at ROOT CAUSATION when addressing worker abuse.

    The problem with the exploitation of workers is at its core not a problem of lack of enforcement of immigration laws in the workplace, but rather the lack of enforcement of LABOR laws in the workplace. Unfair labor practices, failures to adhere to wage and hour regulations, unsafe working conditions, lack of employee protections, harassment or obstruction of efforts to organize ...these are not immigration problems, but rather labor problems.

    In order to raise the standards for all workers, both US-born and immigrant, the labor and employment laws of this country need to be more strictly enforced.

    Currently "workplace enforcement" revolves around the government rooting out unauthorized workers and deporting them. The businesses rarely receive any punishments and when they do they quickly pass those costs on to consumers through higher prices as part of the cost of doing business. But the terrible working conditions that have relegated those jobs to ones that only undocumented immigrants will accept remain the same.

    This paradigm needs to shift. The government needs to shift its focus from attacking the symptom of unfair labor practices, to attacking those practices themselves.

    Instead of swat teams of ICE agents storming factories and meatpacking plants looking for undocumented immigrants, we need armies of inspectors from the Department of Labor, OSHA, and other agencies, looking for labor violations and evidence unfair labor practices.  This is how you raise the standards for all US workers.

    Reforming immigration policy to benefit all workers

    Allowing for reasonable rates of immigration and the legalization of all current undocumented immigrants would in fact start a process by which all US workers could begin to reverse the thirty-year decline in working class real wages and benefits. The inclusion of 7.5 million newly legal workers to the workforce would go a long way to stem this tide. This is why the immigrant's rights movements has the support of the largest unions in the country. The Services Workers, Laborers International and the AFL-CIO have all backed comprehensive immigration reform and the legalization of workers already living in the country. They realize that if they could unionize the current immigrants already in the country and add ½ million or so new members each year from new immigrants, they could possibly regain much of the power they have been lacking for the past thirty years.

    At the polls, these new working class Americans would have a voice in formulating policies more favorable to working families. Things like universal health care, education, a living wage and an equitable tax code would move to the forefront. This is one reason Bush and his big business buddies are so enthralled with his "guest worker" program. It supplies businesses with workers, while keeping them from unionizing and more importantly eventually voting. The last thing the economic elite want is a growing working class voting block to contend with. They will concede on those already here, but as for future immigrants, they want them to enter as temporary workers, to be shipped back home before they can gain political clout. Contrary to what the right-wing would have Americans believe, immigrants are not the enemy of working men and women, but rather natural allies in the struggle for a better life.

    The rest of your arguments sound like the typical propaganda that has, unfortunately, been spread by hate groups like NumbersUSA and FAIR.

    No one is coming to destroy our government.  If you're going to talk about this, at least stop with the RW propaganda.

    •  What Does Labor Law Have To Do With ANYTHING? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SgtRocky1

      That's a labor issue ... ... and can be solved by strengthening our labor laws

      When one worker will work cheaper than another worker (unless one is talking exclusively about those who work for minimum wage)? This is one of the most stupid statements I have ever heard regarding the issue of illegal immigration.

      If Employer A has two prospective employees standing in front of them, one who will work for eleven dollars an hour, and one who will work for ten dollars and hour, how does 'labor law', past or future, even enter into the decision by the employer?

      Yes, when you are talking about minimum wage law increasing enforcement against those who violate minimum wage is needed -- and is a good thing.

      However, saying that 'strengthening our labor laws' is going to somehow slow down illegal immigration into the U.S., much less stop it, is really nothing more than a red herring.

      <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

      by superscalar on Wed Apr 29, 2009 at 11:41:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well (0+ / 0-)

        What I would do is make it as economically and legally unfeasible as possible for companies to hire illegal immigrants.

      •  I have no reason ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... to discuss this with a known troll on the issue of immigration.

        The link is just illustrative of how you spam these diaries.  It is from the diary I linked to in my above comment and shows your "contribution" to this debate.

        You have admitted you don't think there's any solution to this issue.

        I'm not interested in what you have to say -- you have zero credibility when it comes to dialogue on immigration.

        •  I Disagree (0+ / 0-)

          I'm not interested in what you have to say -- you have zero credibility when it comes to dialogue on immigration

          I think with respect to the issue of illegal immigration on Daily Kos, I have a lot of credibility.

          In fact, I think that I have so much credibility on this issue here that you won't even try to keep up, instead your sole response for a long time now is that I am a troll.

          Okay, I'm a troll, a racist, and an 'anti-immigrant' Republican.

          Now, with that said

          You have admitted you don't think there's any solution to this issue

          I have also stated that I don't have a solution to the growing energy crisis, this in your mind means I have no right to any opinions on the subject.

          For the record, my reasons for stating that I don't believe that there is a solution to the issue of illegal immigration is primarily because I am fairly certain that the government is not going to change the wording of USC 8 1324, they are not going institute mandatory jail time for a first time violation of USC 18 1546, they are not going to institute IRCA's 'tamper proof ID', and they are not going to change NAFTA.

          The U.S. government has had more than fifteen years to make any one of these changes -- they have not done so -- it is only with at least one of these changes that illegal immigration will change in the U.S.

          <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

          by superscalar on Wed Apr 29, 2009 at 12:07:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No ... (0+ / 0-)

            ... haven't said you're a racist.  Oceanstar is a demonstrable racist but you are merely a troll on this issue.

            •  You See? (0+ / 0-)

              Given a clear opportunity to once again try to keep up, you have nothing to add to the discussion -- except that I am a troll.

              Okay, I am a troll, I accept your label, now do you have anything even remotely more thoughtful and germane to add to the discussion?

              <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

              by superscalar on Wed Apr 29, 2009 at 12:12:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm the racist, and you're a troll... (0+ / 0-)

                please try to keep up. I'm a right wing racist, because I voice my opinion. A person who has no knowledge of me whatsoever, just called me a right wing hate group member.

                Because I disagree with her/him.

                Yes, they know everything about me, because they saw some websites with some things that I put in my comment.

                I must be a shaven headed, tattooed white guy, who whispers 'nigger' when a black person walks by.

                I come to this site, to only inflame good, decent people. I am the enemy. I hate America, and all it stands for. I joined the military to get extremist training, to use against my fellow American.

                I'm for women having the choice of whether or not they bear children, I fight as hard as I possibly can for the mentally ill. I believe torture is torture, no matter how you phrase it. I detest slave labor, no matter what it's disguised as.

                But, I am the enemy. This person knows it.

                •  No. (0+ / 0-)

                  I said oceanstar is a racist because he is.

                  I said nothing about you other than you're spreading RW talking points about folks coming from Mexico to destroy this country because they can't stand up to their own government.

                  Please get your facts straight.

                  •  yes (0+ / 0-)

                    The rest of your arguments sound like the typical propaganda that has, unfortunately, been spread by hate groups like NumbersUSA and FAIR.

                    No one is coming to destroy our government.  If you're going to talk about this, at least stop with the RW propaganda.

                    Our government is doing a great job in destroying our government.

                    They won't do anything about illegal immigration, because they can profit from it. At the expense of the legal inhabitants. "Jobs American's won't do?" I'd say there are 6 or 8 million legal residents who'd disagree with that.

                    They won't do anything about the 'free trade' agreements, because they profit from slave labor. We hear about 'energy dependence,' but we hear nothing about manufacturing dependence. We hear howling about the auto unions, and nothing about the companies selling products from the most oppressive nations on the planet.

                    We have to compete against our own corporations, and illegal immigrants. But I'm out of line by insisting our laws be respected.

                    •  Our laws are broken. (0+ / 0-)

                      And need to be fixed.

                      Do you honestly believe we're in the fix we're in today because of illegal immigration?  The millions of jobs lost?  The union busting?  The labor laws being shredded for everyone over the past 8 years?

                      Meh.

                      The reason these RW talking points migrate over to liberal websites is because astroturf hate groups like FAIR and NumbersUSA are given lots of face time on cable news, etc.  It's easier to believe this crap than to come up with real progressive immigration reform.

                      The US has decimated many industries in Mexico, including corn production -- leaving folks with no means of livelihood.  We are part of the problem over there as well.

                      I linked to Duke's diary on a progressive reform of our system.  Read it if you dare.  If you'd rather believe the simplistic lies put out by hate groups, that's your choice.

                      Cheers.

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