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View Diary: Torture News Roundup: Evidence & Excuses (233 comments)

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  •  I would normally agree however a greater standard (0+ / 0-)

    is required here....

    Imprisonment for one leaves the option of a pardon later... thus making the punishment for the crime nil, and there will be much political pressure on future GOP admins to do just that.

    The rest of what I would type is essentially a rework of what I said to Meteor in my other reply.

    •  You seem to be assuming there will be (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lightfoot

      future GOP admins

      I'm seriously not so sure about that...And even if the party manages to survive, there must be other ways of upholding the law over time than physically destroying the culprits.

      With the majorities they have in Congress, couldn't the Democrats exempt certain crimes from being pardonable, even by future presidents?

      Btw: Could we please not call them GOP anymore? It's a bad habit...at least put it in quotation marks like this:

      "G"OP

      ...or something

      "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. (...) Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Abraham Lincoln

      by aufklaerer on Mon May 04, 2009 at 12:47:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  to assume otherwise ensures that there will be (4+ / 0-)

        whatever the name there will be a party that will be ideologically disposed to granting a pardon here in case of conviction.

        Never assume that your foe will bleed to death or succumb to their wounds.. make sure that they are gone before you bury them.

        •  You are correct, of course. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lightfoot

          Not to mince words, but not assuming they will be around is not the same as assuming they will be gone.

          (And, I still disagree on the hanging, mainly because I'm opposed to the state killing people in general. Also, because it ensures a gigantic backlash from the right. But I take it you're not being entirely serious on this proposition, rather a bit provocatice, no?)

          "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. (...) Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Abraham Lincoln

          by aufklaerer on Mon May 04, 2009 at 02:30:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  no deadly serious here death IS the penalty (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aufklaerer

            under law... they ordered the torturing of other human beings and that resulted in the death BY torture of one of them.  That alone gets you the needle.. but on top of that they also broke the worst possible law on any book anywhere:

            A war of aggression, the result of which is the death and maiming of over a million human beings.  And it is looking like that part of the torture was done to provide make the launching of that war possible.

            I too am in general no longer in favor of the death penalty, but this rises to the level of crime that I must put aside my distaste for it.  And a million dead and maimed rises to that.  The death of a single human being by torture rises to that.

            My opposition to the death penalty though does not come from a belief that the State should not have that power but rather that it is nearly impossible to 100% sure of guilt.

      •  Obviously the "G" in "GOP" stands for something (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aufklaerer

        else now. My first reaction is "Goose-stepping Old Party", but I am afraid that will suggest a new party game for the teabaggers. Perhaps "Gangrenous Old Party" would suffice, suggesting foul rotting of the body politic resulting in imminent amputation or death.

        Economics is a set of beliefs created to delude the masses into acting against their own interests, enshrined in legislation and enforced at the point of a gun

        by lightfoot on Mon May 04, 2009 at 03:28:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Nope. (0+ / 0-)

      Being locked up in the US -- convicted of a federal crime, not a state crime -- would permit that.

      Being convicted here FIRST would be best, but extradition alone would suffice.  Once convicted of such a crime by an international tribunal, and imprisoned at The Hague, there would be no mechanism for a pardon.

      Best of all, at that point, it would be pretty easy to further push through an impeachment for the purpose of barring any future post with the US government (elective or appointive).  

      And there's no pardon for that, either.  

      [When] the land... has become private property, the landlords... love to reap where they never sowed, and demand rent even for its natural produce. ~Adam Smith

      by ogre on Mon May 04, 2009 at 11:28:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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