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View Diary: Senate Dems could blow this (283 comments)

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  •  And to add to your comment (6+ / 0-)

    there are some folks on this site who will dismiss single payer, arguing "You knew when you voted for Obama that Single Payer was off the table."

    That argument is a misrepresentation of President Obama's stance anyway.  President Obama campaigned against mandating that every adult purchase private insurance products---he thought this was unworkable (how are we going to enforce something like that) and doesn't address the problem.  And I agree with him--until private insurers are out of the picture, I don't think there should be mandates.

    If Obama Were Starting From Scratch, He Would Support A Single Payer System. Obama said, "Here's the bottom line. If I were designing a system from scratch I would probably set up a single-payer system...But we're not designing a system from scratch...And when we had a healthcare forum before I set up my healthcare plan here in Iowa there was a lot of resistance to a single-payer system. So what I believe is we should set up a series of choices....Over time it may be that we end up transitioning to such a system. For now, I just want to make sure every American is covered...I don't want to wait for that perfect system...The one thing you should ask about the candidates though is who's gonna have the capacity to actually deliver on the change?...I believe I've got a better capacity to break the gridlock and attract both Independents and Republicans to work together."

    POTUS on single-payer---fact check page.

    With hope and virtue, let us brave once more the icy currents, and endure what storms may come. - President Obama

    by GN1927 on Wed May 06, 2009 at 09:39:05 AM PDT

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    •  that pretty much sums it all up then (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GN1927, Elise, drache

      doesn't it. At least the one person who matters the most fully understands that neither we, he, nor the insurance companies, the medical profession, the drug companies are going to get everything they all want.  Why?  because they are all diametrically opposed to each other's preferences.

      This talk about abolishing the insurance industry is absolute nonsense, never happen. Probably the best way is to expand a Medicare type program that is more regulated than the current Medicare program which in fact might disappear and those of us who have it would be offered the new public option at the same rates, or maybe a little higher because all of us elderly have to have supplemental insurance now in case we have a catastrophic illness that could totally wipe us out in a couple of months and place terrible burdens on our families to take care of us.

      It is the last years of life that are sinking the entire health care system in America and that has to be addressed, but addessed fairly, so people like me have more options than to go into an expensive for profit establishment instead of being helped to stay in my own home by upgrading it and allowing the much less expensive home care payments that are now allowed for profit nursing homes.

      I have faith that with this administration at the helm we shall get incremental steps this year and for the next three years, depending on external events, wars of necessity, disasters of nature, increased global warming, and i am still willing to trust Obama on this and also trust the democratic leadership to get the best they can with the votes they've got.

      Then in 2010 it will be up to We The people again, to try and increase a majority so even more unpalatble incremental steps can pass into law.  

      I absolutely refuse to join in the rat bastards string Schumer, Baucus, Reid, Pelosi etc up by their heels, primary them. Burn the witches and warlocks, kill them, to the guillotine mentality that pervades thsse pages like mould in a rotten trailer parked in a swamp.

      I have been told that makes me a moronic robotic android elitist. Can't win them all.  Funny, i don't really give a rat;'s arse!!!!!

      •  You're lucky (6+ / 0-)

        You probably haven't had to watch friends and family die unnecessarily because they couldn't afford health care.

        But a lot of us have, so we see the problem in a much more realistic fashion.  The fact that some folks are tired of watching people die from a broken system doesn't make them bad.  

        They deserve to have choices available that prevent those deaths, and the choices they're asking for won't interfere with your choice to support a for profit system that doesn't help the uninsured.  

        So why do you want to oppose changes that save others lives if it doesn't hurt you?

        A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. FDR

        by Betty Pinson on Wed May 06, 2009 at 10:39:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am sorry but so what? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          soccergrandmom

          Let's just accept your premise at face value.

          That 'a lot of people have had to watch friends and family die unnecessarily because they could not afford health care'.

          My question is why should that give you the superior opinion?

          What in that experience gives you some special insight into the reforms needed and hte steps we have to take?

          The passion here of some people but they are mistaking that passion for being right.

          We need more then passion, we need an intelligent, rational approach that is mindful of the reality of the situation.

          A song about life
          Why aren't you more like Gandhi? Why aren't I?

          by drache on Wed May 06, 2009 at 11:49:37 AM PDT

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          •  Its not just passion (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            AmericanRiverCanyon, indres

            Its also a case of having done a great deal of homework and research on the health care system and current health care policy.

            Attempting to dismiss a viewpoint you disagree with by labeling it as uninformed passion isn't a valid argument.

            Advocating for health care policy that is reasonable, affordable and realistic and takes big steps to end tragic deaths due to lack of affordable health care is valid.

            Disagreeing with those who support a system that's only a marginal improvement because it works for them when better options are available to help those not as fortunate - well, that's the way I was raised.  

            I have good health insurance, I too can afford the status quo. But I also have no problem asking others in the health care system to "take a haircut" in order to make long term, comprehensive, systemic change to create a better system for all.  Those who are timid about comprehensive health care reform might do well to consider what could happen if they end up uninsured.

            A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. FDR

            by Betty Pinson on Wed May 06, 2009 at 12:07:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  shimata (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              soccergrandmom

              I am sorry but I am sick of people assuming I am this or that.

              Stop for the love of gods assuming things about me, please.

              I have decent health insurance, I also have a number of 'preexisting conditions' (things I was born with  that I had no control over).

              I would love single payer, hell I would take an end to the travesty that is for profit care.

              I just know that is not going to happen in 1 step.

              I just know that we are going to have to do this in steps and it is going to take time.

              And do not move the goal posts here.

              You made a clear claim that some how watching your love ones suffer makes your opinion 'better'. I want to know why.

              I never tried to dismiss people as uniformed, I simply stated that I do not think it makes any logical sense that experiencing some thing by proxy makes you more informed.

              A song about life
              Why aren't you more like Gandhi? Why aren't I?

              by drache on Wed May 06, 2009 at 12:14:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  excuse me. Wher did I say that I support a for (0+ / 0-)

          profit system.  I have said over and over and over and over again that I personally support a UK style totally government funded , managed and run national health system. The reality of which is basically a two tiered one anyway, with those who can afford it have private insurance as well.

          I have also said over and over again that I do not believe after fifty years of living in America that form of system, or even at this stage a more modified one of a public/private hybrid is politically feasible. At every opportunity I comment on aspects of specifically elderly care that I believe to be abhorrent.  Not to mention the way health care is delivered to poor rural areas and native reservations and the ghettos and the barrios.

          I have never ever said i support a for profit system, I do say that I use the for profit system we already have because I am a responsible human being and do not believe my not carrying supplemental health insurance to protect my family in the event of a catastrophic illness, which at age 76, already way past my sell by date, would bankrupt my family.

          What gives you the right to so morally superior?  Until you and people like you accept the fact that the health debate is not even being debated honestly there is no fopundation. Three will have to be rationing, there will have to be triage, nopt everyone will be able to get the high tech expensive proceedures everyone demands.

          The best we might get and this is what I am fighting for is a system, to start with anyway, where noone is denied health care, that is very different from coverage.  I believe that an expanded Medicare system would work and that is what I am fighting for. So take your anti-elitist remarksm elsewhere.

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