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View Diary: Will M..E. Peace => internal values crisis in Am. Jewish community? (299 comments)

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  •  I ask because it is a credibility (1+ / 0-)
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    deaniac20

    issue. If you are just against Israel but, you give Hamas a pass - then any criticsm you have is not credible.

    Now let me ask you this..... Say, in the Palestinian elections - the majority of people vote for and elect Hamas. How would you feel about them voting for an obviously racist group to represent them? Would you support their cause as ferverently? If so, why?

    •  hello? (0+ / 0-)

      i am not against israel and i resent you prefacing your context in this fashion. i am for pro peace. i have already stated my willingness to advocate for compromise between what i feel is the ideal (one state) because i recognize the significance of what many israeli jews feel, in their hearts. their desire for their own state. this is not something i even think is necessary because i live amongst jews and they seem to be all integrated in my environment. furthermore i don't ever think in terms of needing a 'safe country' where i won't get exterminated, especially since it actually makes it easier to exterminate people when they are all in one place. but whatever. israel is not just some place on a map, it is full of people (like palestine was full of people), and i am not 'against' 'them'. i actually BELIEVE the untenable situation israel has chosen for itself wrt the indigenous people of palestine for the last few thousand years does not serve its best interest in terms of survival, or have you not noticed how pissed everyone is w/israel lately. stocking up the ammo is not the most favorable MO.

      are you familiar w/aspops fables? Kindness effects more than severity

      Now let me ask you this..... Say, in the Palestinian elections - the majority of people vote for and elect Hamas. How would you feel about them voting for an obviously racist group to represent them? Would you support their cause as ferverently? If so, why?

      you mean how would i feel about palestinains voting for a lieberman character?

      ok, let me be clear, i will be ferverently advocating for a equitable solution between israelis and palestinians no matter who either group votes for.

      if the chosen leaders determined the options for peace all israel would have to do is keep killing off all the potential palestinian leaders, and then stall the process forever. then where would the people be?

      bibs formed a friggin government w/a racist and the US is still talking to israel for christs sake. you go to the table w/the leaders you have, not the ones you want.

      for the most part people don't elect radical leaders unless they fear the situation is radical. that's why their needs to be outside mediators. you have to trust the people on the outside of the process have your best interest at heart, have everyones best interest at heart. you have to believe in the goodness of mankind.

      •  I don't believe in the goodness of mankind - (2+ / 0-)
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        deaniac20, MoshebenAvraham

        As James Madison said (to paraphrase): "If men were angels there would be no need for governments, but..."

        I have told you before and I will tell you again - Bibi's government disgusts me ALMOST as much as Hamas. Because if Hamas wasn't there - Bibi wouldn't be there.

        Since you are not Jewish you have no idea what it feels like. Sorry, but after a few thousand years I don't trust anyone to look after our peoples safety. Look I am loyal to the U.S. above all. My father served in the Army - I tried to but, the vision in my right eye is not good enough. But, I know that if something went terribly wrong here I would have a place to go - Israel. In life things can go terribly wrong you have to have a plan for it.

        You answered a question with a question and not an analogous one at that. Liebermann got less than 20% of the popular vote - Hamas got over 50%. Anyway, so next point.

        •  you said this (0+ / 0-)

          Sorry, but after a few thousand years I don't trust anyone to look after our peoples safety.

          i believe it is 'your people' who will be thinking of israels saftey when they choose a more evolved road to security than stocking up on ammo.

          finding alternatives to violence IS looking after your people's safety. i trust jews will do this. the jews in the peace movement. even you.

          i do not believe you don't believe in the goodness of mankind either. how could you go on living not believing man is basically a good being and seeks peace. most people do, for certain.

          •  Interesting .... (0+ / 0-)

            At least we are speaking civilly now. Which is good! I simply think Jews need a homeland. Do we as people need to be respectful of others - absolutely, just as they need to be respectful of us.

            I hope violence is never needed but, it is always important to be prepared. Work for Peace but Prepare for War - truer words have never been spoken regarding the Palestinian - Israeli conflict.

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