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View Diary: Why Obama Is Wrong On The Abuse Photos (117 comments)

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  •  When the AG does his job and starts prosecuting (0+ / 0-)

    the torture criminals, then I'll stop talking about making the photos public.

    In the meantime, when we have an administration that's soft on torture, we need every bit of anti-torture noise we can get.

    Nothing says "anti-torture" like showing what it looks like. Just as any pictures or films of actual war are inherently anti-war.

    When a government violates the unalienable rights of the people, it loses its legitimacy.

    by Rayk on Thu May 14, 2009 at 01:48:32 PM PDT

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    •  You think AG Holder... (0+ / 0-)

      has not seen these photos yet?  So how do you think releasing will change his mind on prosecutions...?

      Obama - Real Leadership for a Real Change

      by dvogel001 on Thu May 14, 2009 at 01:53:00 PM PDT

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      •  I think he's doing what Obama wants... (0+ / 0-)

        and not prosecuting.

        In the event that the American people actually develop some moral scruples and DEMAND justice after they see these photos (IF they see them), the AG might be "persuaded" to enforce the law.

        Of course, I have my doubts about the morals scruples of the American people...they've accepted a whole bunch of evil sh!t...but I can still hope.

        You don't need to agree with me. But I hope you can understand my point.

        When a government violates the unalienable rights of the people, it loses its legitimacy.

        by Rayk on Thu May 14, 2009 at 02:05:26 PM PDT

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        •  I understand your POV... (0+ / 0-)

          but I do not think releasing the photos for the world to see will change any inclination or lack thereof to prosecute torture enablers...

          Obama - Real Leadership for a Real Change

          by dvogel001 on Thu May 14, 2009 at 02:06:52 PM PDT

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        •  I mean if they are refusing to prosecute... (0+ / 0-)

          with what is already in the public domain...I don't know why you think that additional torture photos would change their minds...or for that matter the minds of 95% of the people who have made up their opinions one way or another...

          Obama - Real Leadership for a Real Change

          by dvogel001 on Thu May 14, 2009 at 02:08:21 PM PDT

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          •  I don't THINK it will...but it MIGHT. (0+ / 0-)

            If the American people accept torture...then maybe we and the troops deserve all the evil that others can perpetrate upon us. Maybe our enemies are RIGHT about us.

            One could make that case.

            Maybe we have no ideals, and stand only for raw power. That MAY be the only conclusion to draw. That we condone torture and are morally bankrupt.

            I hope the answer is: we care about justice, civil liberties and human dignity. Show the pictures and let the people speak.

            When a government violates the unalienable rights of the people, it loses its legitimacy.

            by Rayk on Thu May 14, 2009 at 03:36:41 PM PDT

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            •  I understand your POV... (0+ / 0-)

              but disagree with your conclusion...it is not worth it and won't change anything...except raise our threat level around the world...peace...

              Obama - Real Leadership for a Real Change

              by dvogel001 on Thu May 14, 2009 at 03:49:29 PM PDT

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              •  My position may not be practical. (0+ / 0-)

                I know that. And it may raise the threat level around the world.

                There's no 100% trouble free approach to this situation.

                I think failure to prosecute those responsible for our torture policy is itself a huge motivator for those who would attack us...and WILL attack us in the future.

                I think we need to maximize the moral distance between ourselves and the terrorists...but opposing torture and prosecuting it.

                And, I think the way to make our troops safe is by bringing them home. These pictures...whatever they show...are much less significant than leaving our troops in a war zone as occupiers of foreign countries.

                When a government violates the unalienable rights of the people, it loses its legitimacy.

                by Rayk on Thu May 14, 2009 at 03:56:13 PM PDT

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                •  Doing a unilateral withdrawl... (0+ / 0-)

                  of troops from around the world in a careless way will make our country less safe..."we must be as careful drawing down our troops as we were careless in deploying our troops under GWB"...Barack Obama

                  Obama - Real Leadership for a Real Change

                  by dvogel001 on Fri May 15, 2009 at 03:12:59 AM PDT

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