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View Diary: BREAKING: Edwards Indicted in Fraud Scheme (378 comments)

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  •  Let's talk about who has respect (8+ / 0-)

    for this community -

    It isn't the people trying to whip people into a frenzy with bullshit and misinformation on a daily basis on the rec list.

    If you're not willing to read critically, I don't know what else to say except that I hope you're not swindled by Republicans in the future.

    When people don't think critically and read carefully - they get LIED to. That's how we ended up with millions of people voting for George W fucking Bush.

    •  I Know You Know This... (7+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cdreid, GOTV, ChurchofBruce, Elise, sofia, lineatus, dzog

      ...but don't assume it's only Republicans who could swindle people.  

      "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

      by Dana Houle on Thu May 14, 2009 at 05:03:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's my prejudice jumping out. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GOTV, vcmvo2, dzog

        I always make the assumption that Republicans are "dumber" because they believe whatever information they are given. This is why I get so angry here when I read diaries where Democrats are participating in this behavior.

        All of this reminds me of why I quit teaching, but makes me wonder if I shouldn't go back at the same time.

        •  Eh. (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aeolus, delver rootnose, Elise, JVolvo, ColoTim

          I hear you. But seriously, there are those we learn to trust, and those who bullshit. It's not completely out of line for kossacks to trust a front pager.

          Be honest, if Nat Silver posted some stats and Markos promoted them on the front page, you wouldn't be inclined to trust them? I would. Because they both have a proven track record.

          Real journalists, and people like Nate, earn our respect because they have a record of trustworthiness. If Dana wants to undermine that trust here, it's his choice of course, but it's not journalism that for sure.

          •  I Don't "Trust" Anyone To Get Things Right (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Elise, TenthMuse

            There are plenty who I trust to try to get things right, and who I assume will succeed.  But it's lazy to just accept things, especially if they seem outrageous or dubious or not all that clear cut.  

            A few months ago some guy posted on 538, and posted stats that were total bullshit for the claim he made.  People were running around saying that Nate had debunked something I wrote.  Well, the stats have little to do with the claims I had made, and for the data I used to back up my claims.  But because it was on 538, people took it as gospel, and claimed it was Nate.  Not only didn't his data back up his claims, it wasn't even Nate.  

            My "trust" is only as good as the arguments I make and the evidence and reasoning I use to back them up.  Same as anyone else.  

            "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

            by Dana Houle on Thu May 14, 2009 at 05:29:21 PM PDT

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            •  Understood (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              cdreid, ColoTim

              There are plenty who I trust to try to get things right, and who I assume will succeed.  But it's lazy to just accept things.

              Few of us are privileged enough to have the time and resources to look for peer review on every topic that we care about. Part of building community is working together to the best of our ability, and that does require a certain amount of trust.

              I figured it was just a mind game, because if it really had been John Edwards, you would have definitely put it on the front page. But, I must admit that if Maddow, Kos, and you could independently verify that it was the former Senator, I would have believed it. Because there comes a point when I just decide to trust. Should I have to read the court documents too? Maybe you think we all should. But honestly, not everyone can. We aren't all journalists.

              Alot of people really love this Kossack community, they are passionate about it, and they want to believe that front pagers hold high journalistic standards. By implying that it's okay for front pagers to fark with their heads...well, I'm guessing that people are hurt at the very idea and that's why they are so angsty in the comments.

              •  Most People... (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Elise, sofia, dzog, SlackwareGrrl

                ...bitching in this comment thread have previous beefs with me.  Not all.  But most.  They're just using it as an opportunity to take shots.

                Besides, nothing in the post is inaccurate.  It was a very deliberate decision to make sure that whatever I wrote was 100% accurate.  The problem isn't "journalistic standards," it's that some people leaped to unsupported conclusions or assumed it was about some subject other than what it was about.  

                "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

                by Dana Houle on Thu May 14, 2009 at 05:48:18 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Of course they did. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  corvo, dzog

                  The gullible believed you because you're a front pager. You're not someone who we've never heard of, you're not a freeper, and you're not a troll. Of course they were inclined to believe you instead of not.

                  As for the others complaining, I don't know most of them and or anything about their beefs with you or yours with them, I'm too new here myself. So I can't speak to that.

                  •  Not About "Belief" (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    dzog, SlackwareGrrl

                    They jumped to conclusions.  They should believe that the diary is accurate.  And it is.  But where does it say it's about former Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards?

                    It's not that they were right or wrong to believe me as much as they had no good reason to conclude it was about something it wasn't about.  

                    "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

                    by Dana Houle on Thu May 14, 2009 at 06:04:12 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  But I can see Dana's point. (0+ / 0-)

                    So suppose it wasn't Dana. Suppose it was Glenn Greenwald or Paul Krugman. How many people do we have around here that knee-jerk support authors like this without taking the time to think more deeply about anything that might be said in a given article?

                    Dana is trusted because usually his contributions are of high quality, and he's a Front Pager. So he throws this (pretty obvious, if you ask me) stinker out there and everybody gets in an uproar about it. But, as much as I respect them, the Greenwalds and Krugmans of this world are as humanly fallible as anyone else. No matter the "brand" a given writer has established for him or herself, reading and absorbing with your brain turned off leads to reactionary behavior. And I'd much prefer to consign that sort of mob-think solely to the dwindling, yet still deluded, right-wing deadenders, rather than to fellow Kossacks.

                    ---

            •  Dana (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JVolvo, Shahryar

              I completely respect your front page posts. Im actually a fan - THERE.

              But this is another display of your complete lack of judgement and some warped need to anger and offend everywhere  else. I once wrote you an email with honest advice given in good will. It said youre a very good blogger but you need to shut up in the comments and let your post speak for itself.

              Apparently it wasnt enough. I indeed clicked your links before i posted and before i hr'd you. I did so because as much as i dislike you as a person you have credibility and respect as a blogger in my eyes. You've damaged that deeply with this childish asinine post.

              Now i fully expect you to either roll your eyes or reply with some angry self justifying comment. But my point here is not to  attack you personally or to engage in some long debate. It is, hopefully, to convince you that you need to stop this bullshit. The good work you could do, the ideas you could convey, the attention you could generate for important issues.. it isnt worth losing that to  air your dark side. Be the person we both know you can be. Because that person is pretty impressive.

              Murder is Fun http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/10156

              by cdreid on Thu May 14, 2009 at 05:52:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You Seem Confused (0+ / 0-)

                You seem to think that because I do sometimes anger people that it occurs because I have some need to create that, and, apparently, because you think I control the entire exchange.

                Oh, if only I had that kind of control over other people.  

                "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

                by Dana Houle on Thu May 14, 2009 at 05:56:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  I would just like to point out here (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aeolus, JVolvo

          that commenting in a diary is not a claim to have read it necessarily. for the most part it should be, but not always. now, I know that statement will be taken the wrong way and misrepresented shortly, if I know Daily Kos and all that.

          but a person who had been, say, reading a ton of articles, every detail, about John Edwards recently, who skimmed this diary and had every reason to believe it was an update to something they had just been reading about, sees a comment by a user they like to chat with below, but doesn't have long to hang out, and just says a quick thing or two. we're supposed to what, call them a ditto-head?

          this just seems like a childish exercise in "I'm better than everyone"-ness.

          ...That's the way I always heard records — as a circular stained glass window. - Johnny Marr

          by itsbenj on Thu May 14, 2009 at 05:27:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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