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View Diary: Village Green: NatGeo Surveys Countries' Transit Use, and Guess Who Comes In Last (15 comments)

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  •  No.. you cannot force people to move back (0+ / 0-)

    and just "hoping" they will is quite a silly notion to base energy and transportation policy on, now isn't it?

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - G. Marx

    by Skeptical Bastard on Mon May 18, 2009 at 11:24:26 AM PDT

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    •  Wrong. They did it (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BYw

      because it was becoming too expensive to live far away from where they needed to be. People were making economic decisions based on conditions-- no hoping or forcing required. They will continue to do so when prices rise again.

      It was cheap gas after WWII (and Eisenhower's decision to build interstates instead of new rail) that lead people to build on cheap land in the suburbs in the first place, not some uniquely American pioneer spirit or other faux psychology bullshit.

      •  It's way too late (0+ / 0-)

        industry is already too decentralized for the trend to ever reverse itself.  

        People have to work.  But they no longer need to work in central industrial or business districts.

        And I disagree it was only economic conditions that made them move.  People, believe it or not, actually like living outside the cities.  So much so, that early on, they would commute back into the cities for their jobs.

        It is foolish to think spiking gas prices will lead to people moving back into cities.  Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

        We need cheaper energy sources for transportation that will accommodate American lifestyles, not force everyone into some lifestyle they hate just to satisfy your world view.

        "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - G. Marx

        by Skeptical Bastard on Mon May 18, 2009 at 12:38:21 PM PDT

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        •  You can keep repeating (0+ / 0-)

          your mantra that it won't happen. But it did. And when prices go back up, it will continue. Ain't my worldview-- just economic reality. Peoples said Americans wouldn't give up their SUVs either, but that happened quick enough. Industry and populations are far more fluid than you think. It is amazing how fast a factory can go from three shifts a day to a vacant brown field.

          People went to the suburbs because they were given a choice: rent an apartment in the city and try to find parking for your car, or for the same price, own a brand-new, aluminum-sided, 3-bedroom house in the suburbs which is only 5-minutes away thanks to this billion dollar highway the government just built. Your kids will go to brand new schools and we'll issue bonds to extend infrastructure to whatever crazy place you want to live.

          Now that infrastructure is crumbling and suburban township taxes-- kept much lower than adjacent cities for decades by developers-- aren't enough to replace it. Street and bridges are failing, septic tanks are overflowing, and schools need rebuilding. Area-wide street services like garbage pickup, school buses, and police patrols are hard hit.

          Suburbs aren't going to disappear, but the farthest from the city will be the hardest hit. And aging cities like Flint, MI are planning to pull back their borders even farther-- swapping houses with residents in failing areas for houses in viable neighborhoods and reverting the vacant land back to nature. As hard as that is, it will be much harder for townships to follow suit.

          People can still live far away from cities, but it will either cost much more this time around, or else they will live in truly rural conditions. Land must be used more efficiently-- it's a matter of economics and national survival, not ideology.

          •  You're being ridiculous now.. (0+ / 0-)

            You are either deluded or just stubborn in the face of facts that contradict everything you have said.

            There is no infrastructure crumbling.  Are you living in this world?  The suburban school districts are doing just fine, thank you.  And the city schools are paying just as much per child but producing graduates that cannot compete on grade levels even close to the suburbs.

            You apparently have no concept of taxes in the burbs.  I pay twice as much as my city counterparts and gladly do so just to stay here.

            You live in some fantasy dream world.  Try to get a grip on reality.  

            "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - G. Marx

            by Skeptical Bastard on Mon May 18, 2009 at 07:42:38 PM PDT

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      •  Yes, there was a report on NPR last fall (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Olds88, BYw

        about people choosing a smaller home closer to work, rather than the bigger home a quarter of a tank away in the 'burbs.

        Don't know if it's a trend, now that home and gas prices are down. But I suspect that most Americans expect gas to go back to $4.00 eventually.

        We also need to think about retrofitting the suburbs to increase density, local shopping, and employment where people currently live.

        There's already some NIMBY opposition to "New Urbanism" in the older 'burbs in my city, but it's gotta be done, or our 'burbs will end up as ghettos.

        BushCheney Inc. - They lied to me, they lied to you, they lied to our troops.

        by jjohnjj on Mon May 18, 2009 at 12:46:50 PM PDT

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