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View Diary: Obama chooses ambassador to the Vatican (307 comments)

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  •  Ratziner joined Hitler Youth. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ShempLugosi, GillesDeleuze

    He became a Nazi. One can argue, as Ratzinger does, that he was forced to do it or he could not go to Catholic seminary school but the fact remains that Ratzinger joined the Nazi Youth. Many in Germany resisted joining the Hitler Youth and paid the price. An action one might expect in someone who is going to claim the moral high ground in the world and lecture others on morality.

    Understandable, not a shining example but very human, but then he is the infallible Pope, not a man in the street, one would have hoped that to claim such moral high ground, Ratzinger would have demonstrated moral superiority of some sort, you know kind of earned the Pope's job by exemplary action vs. the more pedestrian action joining Nazi Youth for personal gain.

    •  Well, I tend to not demand martyrdom from 16 year (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lepanto, Kylopod

      olds.  Or for that matter, judge a seventy odd year old man for failing to achieve martyrdom as a sixteen year old.  

      You're better off reading Josh Marshall in the first place.

      by Inland on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:09:49 AM PDT

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      •  an INFALLIABLE 16 year old (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Caesarian
      •  But we do from "saintly" Popes..walk the walk. (0+ / 0-)

        Much less cover up child abuse (and make no mistake Ratzinger was at the heart of that in Church power structure), condemn women to injury and death, push ignorance over science and deny civil rights to women and minorities.

        Sainthood and infallibility have their costs. No problem with Ratzinger not being a martyr (or more correctly not giving up his seminary security during WWII) but the Pope should have been the guy who DID THE RIGHT THING. Not the guy who went along with the crowd.

        •  Well, I'm glad you have no problem with martyrdom (0+ / 0-)

          but there's something about volunteering it for other people that's a little disconcerting.  And your deep

          concern

          that the Pope be qualified for his position is touching, but unnecessary.  Popes aren't saints.  <

          You're better off reading Josh Marshall in the first place.

          by Inland on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:43:07 AM PDT

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          •  Have a problem with feet of clay child abuse Pope (0+ / 0-)

            Ratzinger is a SAINT remember.

            A SAINT who supported child abuse, who still tries to defend it, who fights hard against women's right, minority rights, science and education.

            I don't realistically expect Obama to do the right thing and withdraw US recognition of Vatican as a country but it is clearly the right thing to do.

            Catholic Church has no moral standing in the world. Ratzinger is a good example of why that is true.

            •  Actually, no, he's not a saint (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mariachi mama

              nor was he a saint when he was 16.  I think you have a lot of ignorance.

              But your CONCERN that the Pope isn't a saint is duly noted.

              A SAINT who supported child abuse, who still tries to defend it, who fights hard against women's right, minority rights, science and education.

              Link?

              Catholic Church has no moral standing in the world.

              Link?

              You're better off reading Josh Marshall in the first place.

              by Inland on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:54:41 AM PDT

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              •  Ambassador to Islam, Judaism, Budhhism? (0+ / 0-)

                Singling the Catholic Church out as a "state" and legitimizing it with an ambassador is unjustified.

                Sorry the Catholic Church's recent bad behavior from child abuse to women and minority rights just can't be overlooked.

                Their interference in US politics pushes it to the point that US is fully justified in not recognizing Vatican as a "state".

                •  Your concern for religions is touching (0+ / 0-)

                  but the ambassador is to the Vatican, not to a religion.  

                  And most people thought the Catholic church was legitimate as a church, anyway.

                  Sorry the Catholic Church's recent bad behavior from child abuse to women and minority rights just can't be overlooked.

                  Nobody's asking you to overlook anything.  I think you're being asked to stop making stuff up.

                  You're better off reading Josh Marshall in the first place.

                  by Inland on Thu May 28, 2009 at 11:05:11 AM PDT

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                  •  The ambassador is to The Holy See, (0+ / 0-)

                    but other European countries of comparable size share ambassadorial representation with larger neighbor countries: Andorra with Spain, Lichtenstein with Switzerland, Monaco with France, etc.
                    That would suggest that it is an embassy to a religion.

                    "It costs a lot of money to die comfortably" ~ Edmund Burke (prophesying the demise of the Republican Party)

                    by Andhakari on Thu May 28, 2009 at 12:05:07 PM PDT

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    •  No, wrong (5+ / 0-)

      membership was compulsory for all young men by law after 1936; it was in substance a draft.  It's like saying that you chose to fund the War in Iraq by filing your 1040.

      Furthermore, when Ratzinger was enrolled (under penalty of law), he was a minor.  It's sort of like saying that Ratzinger "chose" to go to school in the 4th grade.

      Some good fun at conservatives' expense at my Baltimore Examiner column.

      by tbrucegodfrey on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:26:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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