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View Diary: Why they shouldn't release the photos (108 comments)

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  •  Why would the public (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Surly Cracker, amazinggrace

    change their minds because of the photos? If you don't already want to prosecute the sick bastards who ordered the torture and did the torture, you're not going to change when you see some photos. There are limits to what can be shown on TV and print, so the general public will never see the worst photos anyway. These criminals should ALREADY be in jail. Anyone who is still a torture apologist is not going to change their mind if they see the photos. They might even get off on it.

    The public will see the photos and, aided by the corporate media, will zero in on the particular individuals in the photographs. This is what they did with Lyndie England. They became focused on the personalities. The media did not use that occasion to blame the higher-ups. They blamed the soldiers in the photographs.

    •  I agree Free State (2+ / 0-)
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      Surly Cracker, FreeStateDem

      I have witnessed quite a bit of history in my time. I can honestly say the photos of atrocities never modified the underlying agenda. I wish it were so, but historically it cannot be supported.

      All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Thomas Jefferson

      by amazinggrace on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:55:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thank you. Exactly. nt (2+ / 0-)
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      amazinggrace, FreeStateDem

      Dance like no one is watching with one fist in the air... We are stronger than everything they have taught us that we should fear.

      by Surly Cracker on Thu May 28, 2009 at 11:14:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I disagree (1+ / 0-)
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      FreeStateDem

      Many Most people I know who are quite moderate think that the acts we committed are equivalent to high school or college hazing rituals.  Sleep deprivation, getting naked and forming a pyramid, dogs just out of striking range biting at a person all seem like child's play when compared to beheading.  I fundamentally disagree that we should judge our conduct by our enemy's code of conduct, but that is another discussion.

      Rape is not something that can be dismissed as hazing.  Neither is bringing in fluorescent light bulbs to perform sexual acts.  These acts cannot be swept under the rug or dismissed as "not really all that bad".  If you think that 10 day sleep deprivation and walling is torture (as I do), you are unfortunately going to find yourself in the minority.

      We know what happened.  We are Kossacks.  We obsess about all things political.  Do you expect 50% of the population to know that detainees died during interrogation?  

      Your argument for zeroing in on the particular soldiers involved also ignores the point I made previously.  After all the discussion about who authorized it, Cheney stepping forward to defend it and even take credit for it, and after the scapegoating which occurred after Abu Ghraib, the case is clear.  It is not 2004.

      •  You are right that (3+ / 0-)
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        Ohio Max, Surly Cracker, amazinggrace

        it is a different time now than in 2004, and the discussion has shifted more toward who authorized torture, and unfortunately the whole discussion has somehow turned into a debate about the merits of torture, which I have mostly tuned out because I think that is not a legitimate debate and the people claiming torture has merits are fucking sociopaths. But nevertheless, I do agree that if any photos were released now, the focus would be more on who authorized the torture practices than it was when the previous photos were released.

        My problem is I don't trust the corporate media to frame this issue correctly. Talking about releasing photos, you're basically talking about delegating responsibility to the mass media to distribute the photos and encourage dialogue around it. When have they ever done the right thing when given this kind of responsibility? They can't show rape photos on network or cable news programs. The public will not see the worst. The media will show them what they want.

        I don't need photos to know torture happened. You just need to tell me rape, sexual abuse, water boarding, and sleep deprivation happened and that's all I need to know that prosecution should go forward. I don't need to see it.

        If the media currently is misleading the public and not telling them the truth about the horrific torture practices that were used, then why should I expect them to start telling the public the truth when they have photos? They aren't doing their job now, why should I expect them to do it then.

        •  Point taken (2+ / 0-)
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          Surly Cracker, FreeStateDem

          I see exactly where you are coming from.  

          I was optimistic when the torture debate went mainstream, and I really thought "wow, just might be served here".  You obviously know how disheartening it was to see it turned into an argument over the merits of torture, and I felt the exact same way.  It kind of broke my heart.

          I can't really see how you could change the framing of this issue to ignore what obviously must be done after photos are released.  But I will admit that I could not see how the media turned a debate over the use of torture into a debate about its merits.  I underestimate the shiny object effect.

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