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View Diary: Kansas Doctor, Abortion Provider, Assassinated in Church (472 comments)

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  •  Civil War 2.0 (3+ / 0-)

    I think we're working up to a proper civil war - muddled, borderless, an asymmetrical.

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    "Not dead ... yet. Still have ... things to do." -Liet Kynes

    by Stranded Wind on Sun May 31, 2009 at 12:34:05 PM PDT

    •  No, We're Not (20+ / 0-)

      A civil war would require much larger numbers of Americans to be sympathetic to this extremism. These are the losers in the culture wars, the people who want to return to an idyllic past that never existed, and hate America.  They are a fringe.  But they are a dangerous fringe, and they have been coddled by the GOP since the time of Reagan.  And now, with a liberal black President, gay marriage proliferating, and loses on pretty much ever cultural issue, they feel endangered, an cornered, and that makes them especially danagerous.

      But they don't have a mass following.  So there's not going to be any civil war.

      "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

      by Dana Houle on Sun May 31, 2009 at 12:37:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  there could be (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bearpaw

        We're badly constrained by our historical experience of civil war - a state on state action between uniformed armies with a clear beginning and ending. That's totally, completely weird in the realm of civil wars, which are usually asymmetric muddles involving the state's forces and various disaffected irregulars. There was a good article on this in Foreign Affairs but it's been a while (a year?) and I no longer have the issue handy.

        See the GOP being crowded into the American Southeast? Recall it has already rebelled once? See the secessionist talk coming from state governors? They aren't ethnically different from the rest of us but the religious motivation is there - we've got a doomsday cult of massive proportion in this country and hard times, which we certainly face, will be taken as the 'tribulations', which we get seven years of prior to their 'Rapture'.

        Have you seen James Howard Kunstler's The Long Emergency? What about Dmitry Orlov's Reinventing Collapse? Just because it hasn't happened here before doesn't mean it won't hit us like a freight train once the conditions are right.

        "Not dead ... yet. Still have ... things to do." -Liet Kynes

        by Stranded Wind on Sun May 31, 2009 at 12:47:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Unlike the Domestic Terrorists... (0+ / 0-)

          ...I don't see existential threats where they don't exist.  

          Most Americans couldn't think about not being Americans, or about condoning violence against fellow Americans.  Even most opponents of abortion rights sincerely reject violence like what happened today.  There are people who disagree with the direction of the country who don't advocate or practice such treasonous acts.  To toss huge swaths of America in to the pot of people you say might want a civil war makes it near impossible to distinguish between the roughly 15-20% of the country that still loves Bush, or at least his policies, and that I think is politically insane, and that much smaller percentage of people who do pose serious threats to safety and civil order.  

          "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

          by Dana Houle on Sun May 31, 2009 at 12:58:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  yes and no (0+ / 0-)

            Some skepticism is required, of course, but we haven't even begun to unwind the banking mess and people are going to find someone to blame for the dramatic reduction in living standards. Kossack plf515 thinks the energy supply troubles we face presage a change as momentous as the industrial revolution. We won't get from point A to point B without breaking a few eggs ...

            "Not dead ... yet. Still have ... things to do." -Liet Kynes

            by Stranded Wind on Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:00:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  So much correct here (0+ / 0-)

        I hope it all is.

      •  No, they feel empowered. (0+ / 0-)

        Plus, they may be a minority where you live, but not where I live.

    •  With less than 10 victims? (0+ / 0-)

      I'm not saying their deaths are not tragic, but let's not overinflated the threat.

      •  How many people have to die... (0+ / 0-)

        For it too be considered a threat?

        Example; Because only 4000 soldiers have been killed in Iraq

        •  Where Did She Said It's Not a Threat? (0+ / 0-)

          "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

          by Dana Houle on Sun May 31, 2009 at 01:44:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Didn't get to finish my post before it posted. (0+ / 0-)

            I hit a shortcut key or something... (It didn't even preview.)

            Anyway, It just seemed like the post was approving the death of one person, or saying that you can't constitute death as a reason to go to war. That's not true. Archduke Ferdinand and his wife being assassinated help ignite a monster sized war.

            She said over inflate the threat, so I was asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop.

            •  Wow (0+ / 0-)

              With an opportunity to reread it, you think she was APPROVING of this death?

              Wow.  

              You may want to consider spending more time reading before commenting, because there's absolutely NOTHING in what she wrote that could be accurately or fairly construed as approving of Tiller's death.

              Nothing.

              "Dignified people, without a whimsical streak, almost never offer fresh insights, in economics or anywhere else." Paul Krugman

              by Dana Houle on Sun May 31, 2009 at 04:37:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  How many died in Oklahoma City, (0+ / 0-)

        how many blacks lynched, how many unsolved murders can be laid to these groups.  I would guess we are talking about thousands, maybe many more.

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