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  •  re: A distrubing trend on dKos (3.75)

    May I, as a Republican troll and now poster, postulate another option?

    Maybe you should look at the dynamics of the country as a whole, not just one fixed set of opinions that you may have?

    It may be time for you, as a liberal Democrat, to look at where you, and your party is, and come up with a message that will resonate with the people you want to reach.  You didn't do it this election, nor in 2002, or in 2000 (though the FL presidential debacle overshadowed everything else).  As a Republican, I see that your party has mired itself in sixty-year-old ideas and policy, and it ain't working.

    Get a message, get something that voters can look at and just maybe, maybe, they will.

    •  Thanks for that. (none)
      I've been thinking a lot about where the party stands and where it's headed.  Not that I have any real influence beyond the scope of this blog, as I'm not a party insider or a fundraiser or anything else, although I am seriously considering getting involved in politics in some capacity back in my (heavily GOP) hometown.

      Still, after this election there's been kind of a minor Copernican revolution in the way I see things.   This is probably dumb & obvious to veterans of the game, but I used to be so big on insisting how we were right and had better policies and more facts and evidence on our side.. that it hardly occurred to me to think about where the electorate really stood and what they thought of us.  Live and learn.

      We must cultivate our garden.

      by daria g on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 07:44:50 PM PST

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      •  Where you are. . . (none)
        OK, one more post before bed.

        Never, ever think that you have no influence on your party, or what you want from your party.  If you belive what you do, don not hesitate to get involved in it and just go!

        Good luck!


    •  Blur, (none)
      There are many reasons for this, the biggest one of which is that we are afraid to be who we are.  The reason that we are afraid to be who we are is explained very well by George Lakoff:  progressives have to define themselves in terms of negatives in order to counter the frames that neoconservatives have put in place to define the political spectrum, and when we do so, we sound like radicals.

      In point of fact, progressives aren't radicals; we're not even really "liberals" in the old sense, i.e., favoring huge government programs with little fiscal restraint.  Progressives favor fiscal discipline but also don't necessarily see government as an evil; we think government can be a positive force for change in things such as health care and the environment.

      But these things are framed as, for instance, "a government takeover of health care."  Look at the word "takeover."  Takeovers are bad.  Hitler tried to take over Europe.  Takeovers rob you of your freedom.

      We don't want to rob anybody of their freedom; we just want everybody to be able to see a doctor when they get sick.

      I'd bet as a moderate Republican, things are looking pretty bleak right now for you in your own party.  Come on over.  You're more than welcome.  Yes, you'll be on the conservative wing of our party, but we have a long history of being a big tent.

      Proud Member, Controversial Daily Kos Extremist Group

      by DC Pol Sci on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 07:47:59 PM PST

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      •  'liberals in the old sense' (none)
        " favoring huge government programs with little fiscal restraint"

        No, that isn't the "old sense", that's the Republican propaganda sense.

      •  Who are Democrats. . . (none)
        Hi DC, thanks for your nice response.

        First off, my disagreement of your position on Lakoff's position is strong.  One must never resort to negatives to prove a positive (isn't there a postulate somewhere on this?).  In politics, positive always (mostly) wins over negative.

        And I know that most progressives are not radicals, most sane Republicans know this as well. We are all interested in the outcome of this ongoing experiment we call America.  You folks have your opinions of what is best for us, and we ours.  This is what makes us the greatest nation on earth.  Yes, I would like everyone to be able to visit a doctor whenever they want (which, actually, they can through public clinics and taxpayer-funded hospitals).  The myth is that people are denied health-care in this country.  The truth is that we have the healthiest country in the world - per capita.

        But, no, DC, things are not looking bleak right now.  I live in Texas, where GW was governor (arguably the weakest governorship in the country) before his ascension to the Presidency.  He did a lot of things us Republicans didn't like, but he had the respect of many Texas Demorats.

        I'd rather offer you the chance to come over to my party, and join me in the moderate wing of the Repbulican party.  We need people like you and I to help offset the perception that us 'Bublicans are intolerant.

        Favorite e-mail of the day - Condi on her first trip to Saudi says "hot weather, give me the keys to the damn car."

    •  Older that that (none)
      Our ideas go back to 1787, 1868, 1933, 1965.

      Those are the years that really inspire us.

      It's time to reject a President that says to the American people 'Ignore my record, forget my failures and fear the future.' - Kerry Campaign

      by Armando on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 07:50:59 PM PST

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    •  Thanks for the Idea (none)
      But I don't totally agree. Our problem, if anything, is that we spend too much time looking at the country as a whole and worrying about what will resonate with them.

      However, what I agree with is that we really need to find a way to connect with them about what we do stand for. It's a pity that we didn't get every last vote from people who work at Wal-mart. That by itself would have probably changed the election. Here are people who are just getting screwed by the capitalist system and they'll still vote for Bush because he wants to put an anti-abortionist on the Court.

      Both of these are part of the same problem. We look too hard at the voters to see what we can get away with and don't look at them hard enough to see how to reach them with our message.

      It's a self-correcting problem, though. We've gone back to the free-wheeling capitalism of the 1880's and we've picked up all the same problems that led to the Great Depression and the rise of unionism. At some point I got to believe that we won't have to go find the voters--because they'll come find us.

      Liberal Thinking

      Think, liberally.

      by Liberal Thinking on Tue Nov 16, 2004 at 02:12:27 AM PST

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