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View Diary: Obama First Sitting President to Admit U.S. Involvement in 1953 Iran Coup (293 comments)

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  •  "Acknowledging" and "Prosecuting" are Different (9+ / 0-)

    The lack of precision with terms grows tiring on the endless discussion over this matter.

    If the President had launched a special prosecutor to look into the 1953 coup in Iran, then you could honestly make that comparison and charge double standard.

    But he didn't do that, did he? He acknowledged the crime, just as he has acknowledged - and most importantly, put a stop to - all practices of torture.

    I think it's all fine and good to advocate for a special prosecutor, but the false comparisons are tiresome and, well... false.

    •  Everybody involved in the Mossadegh affair... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mattman, Zinman, KenBee, IngeniousGirl

      ... are dead.  I suppose that would make this a false comparison too, but I prefer to see it as a material difference which affects how the different examples should be handled.

      False comparisons?  What's false?  We are looking at illegal governmental actions sanctioned at the highest levels in the same part of the world which have had demonstrated blowback.  Where is the falsity?

      Just saying we're not going to commit war crimes anymore without imposing accountability for war crimes that are still going on isn't putting a stop to anything.  It doesn't reimpose the rule of law which has been shattered; it doesn't tell future administrations these violations might be a bad idea; it doesn't reassure people in the afflicted part of the world that we mean what we say any more than we have all the other times we promised not to do bad things again.

      Jeebus, the dudgeon you exhibit at the criticism of Obama's failure to move forward on one of the most important moral tasks he faces is hard to understand.  Care to defend him a little more cogently?

      Godwin is dead. Glenn Beck killed him.

      by Dallasdoc on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 07:02:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The part of your screed that is dishonest... (0+ / 0-)

        ...comes in these words:

        Just saying we're not going to commit war crimes anymore without imposing accountability for war crimes that are still going on...

        WTF? "War crimes still going on"?

        Name them.

        And don't demand cogency until you learn to practice it. I denounce and disassociate myself from people who say things like you just did. You're just full of gas. I wouldn't let you near my foxhole in the struggle for human rights.

        •  Are we not still holding prisoners.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

            at Gitmo that we know are innocent? They were picked up after their enemies were paid bounties by our government. Every day, we hold an innocent prisoner without due process is a crime.  

        •  Tell me about Bagram (0+ / 0-)

          There are plenty of reports about Bagram being "the new Gitmo" and there is no credible reporting indicating that abuses there that have led to documented murders have been changed.  For that matter, Guantanamo detainees frequently report through their interlocutors that torture activities are still going on.

          Barack Obama has announced his intention to hold people indefinitely without charges, which is little different from what Bush and Cheney did, aside from the fact that the policy intent is even more unconstitutional.  

          You can throw all the tantrums you like about people who point out things like this, but it doesn't help your credibility.  Frankly, I expect better of you.

          Godwin is dead. Glenn Beck killed him.

          by Dallasdoc on Fri Jun 05, 2009 at 05:48:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Just this past Monday at the swearing in... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

          of the new President of El Salvador, one Hugo Chavez was noticeably absent. He had received back channel communications from Daniel Ortega warning him of a plot to assassinate him.
          You can see a comment from him at

        Chavez made sure to clarify his allegations, saying, "I'm not accusing Obama. I think Obama has good intentions, but beyond Obama there's an empire—the CIA and all its tentacles: Terrorists and paramilitaries."

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