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View Diary: Gallup: 58% of CONSERVATIVES In FAVOR Of Gays In Military! (69 comments)

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  •  Recced for very interesting poll numbers (4+ / 0-)

    I still maintain that since this is a "national security" or "military" issue with many, not a "civil rights" issue", Obama has little cred and has to tread carefully with the full support of congress. I think it will be like negotiating with Iran in order to get DADT repealed.

    •  You can still "maintain" whatever you want... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jay C

      ...but the polling numbers show that, whatever kind of issue you try to frame it as to justify your own lack of will in the matter, the American people are not worried about it. In overwhelming numbers, they are not worried that it will jeopardize national security, they are not worried that it will jeopardize our military, and they don't give a damn about how much "cred" Obama has.

      •  I agree those polling numbers are significant (0+ / 0-)

        but I still think it's more perilous politically than that.

        After all, most people are for closing Gitmo, too, but it failed 93-6 in the senate and gave Republicans a talking point forever.  Most people were for health care reform and the attempt killed Clinton.

        •  Of course. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          grada3784

          I still think it's more perilous politically than that.

          Of course. People think what they want to think, and no amount of evidence to the contrary will dissuade them.

          After all, most people are for closing Gitmo, too, but it failed 93-6 in the senate and gave Republicans a talking point forever

          You reveal yourself in so many ways here.

          You pretend to yourself that Congress voted on whether or not to close Gitmo. They did not.

          You pretend to yourself that two weeks is predictive of forever. You want to believe that, but it ain't so.

          You pretend that there is a Republican talking point in here somewhere. It gave you a talking point for your conversation with yourself. There is nothing here for the Republicans.

          You pretend to yourself that the failed attempt during the Clinton Administration killed Clinton, but it did not. Clinton did not merely survive that defeat, he thrived, went on to get comfortably re-elected, and became one of the more popular presidents in history.

          •  And to the ad homs you go (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            grada3784

            amazingly enough, concluding that I'm talking to myself.

            I wish that congress and other americans were so easily dismissed with a statement like "you reveal yourself" and "you pretend".  But they aren't.  They aren't impressed with your bloggerific exercises in challenging people over purity.  For example:

            You pretend to yourself that Congress voted on whether or not to close Gitmo. They did not.

            Why, that's right.  But the end result is that the vote prevents Gitmo from closing.  It turns out that what you say it's "about" didn't change the end result.  You might want to think about that when you get around to realizing that politics occurs in the real world.

            •  More of the same... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              grada3784

              But the end result is that the vote prevents Gitmo from closing.

              More self delusion. Clearly the vote prevents nothing. Had Congress voted for the funding, Gitmo still couldn't close, because the Obama administration has no plan for relocating the detainees. That is what is preventing it from closing.

              •  That doesn't even make any sense. (0+ / 0-)

                Clearly the vote prevents nothing.  Had Congress voted for the funding, Gitmo still couldn't close, because the Obama administration has no plan for relocating the detainees.

                And now, even if Obama devises a plan, it won't close because the funding's been denied.

                Saying it makes no difference is idiotic.  That's not even one of your purity statements. It's just dumb.  Stop doing that, or stop trying to "help" your causes.  

                •  Sheesh. (0+ / 0-)

                  even if Obama devises a plan, it won't close because the funding's been denied.

                  They didn't vote "no funding, now and forever." They voted against one funding proposal and stated that they will take the matter up again as soon as Obama has a plan for relocation of the detainees. In the meantime, the Pentagon reiterated that the vote had no effect on the timeline for closing the facility.

                  It's a lousy 80 million bucks, spare change for the DOD. If Congress doesn't expressly fund the costs of closing the facility, they can reallocate the money from something else in their $90+ billion war budget. Or maybe sell some used waterboarding equipment to the CIA.

                  Clearly you are either poorly informed on this matter or maybe just an outright troll. Enough already.

                  •  You're pretty insulting for an idiot. (0+ / 0-)

                    Any vote could be reversed SOME day.  The DADT can be reversed SOME day. But bad strategies and insufficient planning means losing in congress and WAITING for that SOME day way off into the future.  That's why a huge loss and handing republicans, who want to delay that day as long as possible, is not an insignficant thing. Because these delays and opposition don't go away by themselves, and waiting IS the problem.

                    Got that?  Waiting is the problem. We all know that SOME day DADT will be reversed.  But idiots like you who are more interested in making enemies and insults will push that day off.

      •  The thing about the military (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Day24Day7

        is that is a unique institution in our society, almost completely separated from the rest of us.  Servicemembers do not have Constitutional protections or rights.  They are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  They have successfully made the case over the centuries that because of their specialness, they have to have a set of rules that apply only to them in the interests of national security.  They are allowed to discriminate in ways that are appalling to just about anyone else.  You cannot be fat in the military.  You cannot be disabled in the military (although that one is softening with the improved prosthetics we see now).  It is a crime punishable by prison time to have any kind of sex outside of marriage, or even to associate socially with anyone outside of your own rank.  The gay thing is just another in a long line of discriminatory practices...

        No politician ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the American public. PT Barnum, paraphrased...

        by jarhead5536 on Sat Jun 06, 2009 at 09:46:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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