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View Diary: Obama Flip-Flops on "Don't Ask, Don't Tell,"  Open Administration (333 comments)

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  •  If Obama actually opposes a repeal of DADT... (8+ / 0-)

    ...I'll be the first to condemn him.  

    If he goes a full year in office without even addressing it, I'll be pissed off.  But right now, he's following the law, which I think is not irrelevant.

    "The first rule of pillow fight club is that you do not talk about pillow fight club" -- Keith Olbermann

    by juliewolf on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 02:54:22 AM PDT

    •  But also breaking a campaign promise you'll have (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      emsprater

      to admit, no Juliewolf?  And not only on DADT.

      Where's the leadership we wanted and voted for.  And this timidity coming from a president who handily won the election and has 60 seats in theSenate (with Senator Al soon coming) and what, 70 to 80 vote majority in the House?  What's the problem?  Where's the will to bring about real change that was the cornerstone of the Obama campaign?  

      "Tyranny & oppression are just as possible under democratic forms as under any other...democracy is a life & involves continual struggle." Robert LaFoll

      by fflambeau on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 03:02:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They're not his Senators (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        alliedoc

        I thought this had come through to you by now.

        And no it's not broken promise if Obama was for single payer 6 years ago or gay marriage 10 years ago, but isn't now and hasn't been during his campaign.

        •  There are 60 Democratic senators (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bruh1, Kickemout

          Theston and Obama is the head of the party.  Where's the will and the leadership?  How much of majority does he need?  Paleez, stop giving such lame excuses.  

          "Tyranny & oppression are just as possible under democratic forms as under any other...democracy is a life & involves continual struggle." Robert LaFoll

          by fflambeau on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 03:17:23 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Are you counting Bayh? There are not 60 (0+ / 0-)

            votes on many issues.  There are several very open minded Republicans also.  This isn't about counting.  This is about getting the votes.

            •  This is about leadership and the lack of it. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              craigkg, emsprater, ewmorr

              Obama is the head of his party.  He can bring lots of pressure on the Bayh's and Lieberman's out there but he has SHOWN NO WILLIGNESS TO DO SO.  He lacks the will; he's not a fighter.  

              "Tyranny & oppression are just as possible under democratic forms as under any other...democracy is a life & involves continual struggle." Robert LaFoll

              by fflambeau on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 04:14:31 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  No, to those ... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jayden

                who are comfortable with discrimination, with millions of Americans being kept in a second class citizen limbo, this is not a 'lack of leadership'.  They do not see the need for Obama to lead on these issues, because these issues are of no import to them.  They have theirs.  GLBT folks can damn well wait their turn.  That's what it's all about, and it boils down to that no matter whether the POTUS is named Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush or now even Obama.  Queers to the freakin back of the line, and anyone who dares to complain is labeled a 'whiner' or 'impatient'.

                "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness ..... as long as you're heterosexual, no matter how many affairs or divorces or out of wedlock kids you have."

                by emsprater on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 06:59:25 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  you are leaving in a IDEAL world, you need to (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                askew

                come back to REALITY.

                did you remember the liberal agenda of getting money to close down guatanamo that went into congress? it was shut down 92 - 7.

                the senator are your obama's property they are the property of the people who call regularly to nag, so maybe you should take your nagging to these senators, they are the ones you are really going to need to pass the policies you want.

              •  President Obama can do fuck-all (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                askew, sillycilla

                to move sitting Senators if they don't want to be moved, or if their constituents would punish them for moving the way he wants them to.

                Especially now, with the Congress (finally!) trying to reestablish its power base after 10 years of Executive dominance. They're not very responsive to the President right now. It's kind of annoying, because it's our guy that they're resisting, but it's a great thing for the Republic... Congress shouldn't respond to the President. The relationship should be adversarial.

                Repealing DADT will take Congressional action that President Obama has no power to make happen. He can ask... that's about it.

                --Shannon

                "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
                "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

                by Leftie Gunner on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 07:15:56 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  You will never get them to (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                emsprater

                hold Obama accountable for anything. this has been the game from the start. Whenever someone says "what about Obama's leadership" they start on about how its impossible for him to lead regardless of what the facts or issues are.

      •  He hasn't broken a campaign promise. (0+ / 0-)

        He said he'd work to repeal DADT. He didn't say he'd work to repeal DADT within the firt 150 days of his administration.

    •  asdf (7+ / 1-)

      julie:

      Precisely.

      A campaign promise cannot be considered 'broken' until and unless the one who made the promise leaves office without having moved to implement it.

      We gay folks can be such children sometimes. I want it NOW - regardless of the potential future harm and dislocation it causes - when the cost of being a little patient and working to overturn the paradigm over time would be so much more useful and profitable to political and social relations in the future.

      So long as people are not DYING from the injustice, I don;t see the need to move this issue to the front burner - not so long as the economy is falling apart and the national financial web is on the brink of collapse.

      Next to that prospect, being able to serve in the military is kinda down on the list of importance.

      I don't have "issues". I have a full subscription!

      by GayIthacan on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 03:42:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Speak for yourself please (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bruh1, jayden

        when you write, "We gay folks can be such children sometimes."  I have trouble believing that anyone who wrote that can really be gay.  Sounds like self-loathing more than anything.  And your positions on this are out of the 50's darling.  

        "Tyranny & oppression are just as possible under democratic forms as under any other...democracy is a life & involves continual struggle." Robert LaFoll

        by fflambeau on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 04:03:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  are you gay? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          alliedoc

          It shouldn't matter, but figured I would ask since you are prone question the credentials of anyone who doesn't agree with your position.

          -7.38, -5.23 I survived the Purple Tunnel of Doom, no thanks to DiFi. I will remember this, though. Ugh!

          by CocoaLove on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 04:06:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I didn't read it that way. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            emsprater, ewmorr, fflambeau

            Your accusation is unwarranted, IMO.

            fflambeau's comment was in direct response to "We gay folks can be such children sometimes" and not about the overall disagreement regarding Obama and DADT.

            It is natural to 'question the credentials' of someone who would make such a broad all-inclusive statement that is so rude, offensive, and inflammatory.

            Through all your faults and all my complaints, I still love you.

            by jayden on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 04:29:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  my question speaks (0+ / 0-)

              to a pattern that fflambeau uses to pick away at the credibility of anyone who disagrees with his position. This isn't the first diary where he's done this and he knows it.

              -7.38, -5.23 I survived the Purple Tunnel of Doom, no thanks to DiFi. I will remember this, though. Ugh!

              by CocoaLove on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 08:02:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Your question speaks to your pathological (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                emsprater, fflambeau

                need to demonize anyone who questions Obama's accountability in terms of his leadership. It's pretty pathetic. Respond to the substance of the criticism for once. The other point bout self hating gays is abolutely true. There are many gays for whom gay righs is not an issue because they have adopted what is called identity projection- they come to act and believe of themselves as the majority beleives they are. Their rights are less important becdause they accept that belief from the majority. In minority / majority rights issues- this comes up quite frequently.

      •  Who are you speaking for, GayIthican? (6+ / 0-)

        I find your condescension boorish and smug. Your language is meant to inflame, not add to the discussion. You don't speak for me so please modify your statement.

        We gay folks can be such children sometimes. I want it NOW - regardless of the potential future harm and dislocation it causes - when the cost of being a little patient and working to overturn the paradigm over time would be so much more useful and profitable to political and social relations in the future.

        Through all your faults and all my complaints, I still love you.

        by jayden on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 04:05:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Julie Dems say no change on this before (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      emsprater, BludevlsAdvocate

      end of Obama's term.

      From Yahoo News:

      A Democratic aide to the Senate Armed Services Committee called a review of the law (DADT) "not a high priority" and said the panel will look at the issue sometime before the end of Obama's term — but would not specify when. The aide spoke on condition of anonymity to speak freely about the committee's plans.

      That's 2012 they're talking about, not his first full year in office.  And of course, in 2012 the word coming from Obama will be that this is such an inflammatory issue, it will have to be put off until after his relection.  And after that....

      Prepare to be disappointed.

      "Tyranny & oppression are just as possible under democratic forms as under any other...democracy is a life & involves continual struggle." Robert LaFoll

      by fflambeau on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 05:06:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wow. A "Democratic aide" who can't be named. (0+ / 0-)

        Democratic aides don't set policy, and can be anyone from a senior adviser for a senator to a teenaged boy looking for something he can put on an application to West Point. There's no way to know.

      •  So Obama (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        emsprater

        should expect a few million votes less from GLBT folks. He must have it all figured out to be able to do dispense of so many votes so easily.

        Until Obama does something tangible for the GLBT community, beyond pretty speeches, he is just "All-Talk Barack"

        by gladkov on Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 07:54:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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