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View Diary: RedState Morning B.S.: June 10, 2009 (40 comments)

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  •  The Establishment Clause (0+ / 0-)

    ...only restricts public policy.  It does not limit the personal expression of elected officials.

    Nothing you have cited says anything different.  Here:

    The touchstone for our analysis is the principle that the "First Amendment mandates governmental neutrality between religion and religion, and between religion and nonreligion." [citations omitted] ...  By showing a purpose to favor religion, the government "sends the ... message to ... nonadherents 'that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members... .' "

    These words mean something very specific.  The Decidership is over, Obama does not rule the country by fiat.  His personal belief system is not government policy, therefore he can say what he wants about religion and not violate a single person's 1st Amendment rights no matter how badly their feelings are hurt.

    I don't know how much clearer I could make it.

    Your self-esteem problems are not a Constitutional issue.

    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody watch news tonight. — Wang & Connie Chung

    by The Red Pen on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 08:31:29 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Not about me (0+ / 0-)

      As insulting as you have repeatedly tried to be, it's really not about my self-esteem at all.

      And, it's pretty clear that you have a unique view of our government, that somehow the President operates outside of it.  You're certainly welcome to your view, but don't pretend that it's the only view out there.

      •  It's not a "view" (0+ / 0-)

        It's just the way things are.  I'm very impressed that you know how to use Teh Google, but you obviously didn't do much actual research because you are completely wrong.

        Please be my guest and try to get the ACLU to file a class action lawsuit against Obama for saying "Jesus" and violating your first Amendment rights.  I await the headlines.

        And you've been insulting, too.

        Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody watch news tonight. — Wang & Connie Chung

        by The Red Pen on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 06:22:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Still missing the point (0+ / 0-)

          This was never about suing Obama - although, nice try to keep diverting the discussion - but the opinion, expressed by the commenter above, that s/he was "uncomfortable" at Obama's statements about religion.  You tried to make it out that this was the commenter's problem with some "right" of Obama to say what he wants.

          Now, because you can't dispute case law about the purpose of the Establishment Clause, you want to make it that the Executive Branch is somehow untethered to any restriction by the Establishment Clause.  That's certainly a interesting view, and you're entitled to push it, but again, please don't act like you are the final arbiter of the Constitution.  

          And, while your legal skills may be limited to "Teh Google," other people may have a few more legal research tools available.

          •  Find the case law (0+ / 0-)

            You haven't cited any case law that says that an official expressing his or her personal belief is a violation of the Establishment Clause.

            There is no case law to dispute.

            You tried to make it out that this was the commenter's problem with some "right" of Obama to say what he wants.

            He can say what he wants.  That is actually something that the 1st Amendment guarantees.  What he can't do is make his religious beliefs a component of public policy and you haven't shown where he has done that.

            please don't act like you are the final arbiter of the Constitution.

            That would be the Supreme Court.  Please find a Supreme Court case where an elected official was found to be in violation of the Establishment Clause because he or she made a reference to a religious belief.

            And, while your legal skills may be limited to "Teh Google," other people may have a few more legal research tools available.

            Fancy.

            I'm going to go out on a limb here and bet that whatever mysterious "legal research tools" you are using, Obama understands Constitutional law a hell of a lot better than you do.

            Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody watch news tonight. — Wang & Connie Chung

            by The Red Pen on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 08:45:08 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  PS (0+ / 0-)

          I see from your comment history that this issue is a particular sore spot for you, so I'll leave you to your convictions.

          •  OK (0+ / 0-)

            Now you're just creepin' me out.

            Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody watch news tonight. — Wang & Connie Chung

            by The Red Pen on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 08:46:44 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Really? (0+ / 0-)

              You creep out easily then.  It's not like a quick look at your hiddens (for example) is hard to do around here - it doesn't even require "Teh Google" - and I sometimes find it helpful to try to understand someone else's point of view.  If you're creeped out by that, you can always stop posting in a public forum.

              •  Wait (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Darmok

                Don't I have a Constitutional right not to feel uncomfortable?

                Help!  I'm bein' repressed!  Come see the violence inherent in the system!

                Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody watch news tonight. — Wang & Connie Chung

                by The Red Pen on Thu Jun 11, 2009 at 09:06:52 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ok (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  The Red Pen

                  Anyone intimately familiar with Monty Python can't be all bad.  And I'm going to on my way before you have a chance to say "Nee" or tell me that my mother smelled of elderberries.

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